Do you stick clip?

Rusty Finkelstein wrote:What if it was put up on lead??? Not so many sport routes, but tons slabby bolted lines, and mixed trad lines have first bolts that are pretty high. Those routes have history that we shouldn't negate by just stick-clipping, show the FA some respect and make an attempt to do it good style, or choose a less serious route..... If it's a rap-bolted sport route, then sure do whatever you need to make it feel safe for you.

How about I climb the route how ever the fuck I want to climb the route?

Would it be different to place a cam off a long stick? Seems like it might kinda fun, not knowing if the cam is good; way cooler than stick-clipping anyways... anybody here ever done that?

Stick clipping trad! Yes!! Have you ever tried bottom up top roping? ;)

Woah. Csproul, no need to get angry. I'm sorry if my tone offended you. I don't really care how you climb a route. For me, I've seen many routes that would lose some of their value if you were have the first bolt clipped - due to some old crusty dude that placed the bolt, on lead, in cowboy boots. That being said there are tons of routes where that isn't the case and maybe stick clipping is a safe choice.

All jokes aside, +100 for climbing however you want. If someone gives you shit for the way you climb then they can screw off, it doesn't concern them. I just wanna climb stuff :)

JoeGaribay wrote:This particular route had a risky fall, however, it was easily protected with a nut in a low crack and it had a difficult bouldery start. But climbing it without the clip, to me, kept it more pure and natural. (As natural as a sport route can be). Opinions?

You realize your post is full of contradictory statements? I'd rather carry a stick clip than a full trad rack to a sport crag...

Rusty Finkelstein wrote:What if it was put up on lead??? Not so many sport routes, but tons slabby bolted lines, and mixed trad lines have first bolts that are pretty high. Those routes have history that we shouldn't negate by just stick-clipping, show the FA some respect and make an attempt to do it good style, or choose a less serious route..... If it's a rap-bolted sport route, then sure do whatever you need to make it feel safe for you.

Dude, not angry at all...just calling out this completely gumby statement. It's not your place to tell anyone how we "should" climb a route or who we should "respect" (short of altering the route, of course). How anyone else climbs a route doesn't affect you at all.

BTW, I love run-out climbs. Stone Mtn is one of my favorite climbing areas, but I wouldn't care in the slightest if I saw someone stick clip there (better bring a long stick). In fact, I once got a little wigged out on a route there and while climbing on double ropes, proceeded to climb with one rope and drag up a tree branch and tape with the other rope to clip the next bolt.

Jake Jones, I get it, Csproul seemed butt hurt that I would even bring that up before, so I was trying to clarify where I was coming from. I really couldn't care less how anyone climbs a route, if it makes ya feel safer then do it.

Gumby statement? lol that hurts! Not trying to tell anyone how to climb, just my opinion on those particular kinds of routes . I really don't care how anyone decides to climb, everybody decides their own personal ethics. At the end of the day we're still just climbing up rocks in the woods. Stone Mtn is high on my places-to-go list. Looks so good.

Rusty Finkelstein wrote:due to some old crusty dude that placed the bolt, on lead, in cowboy boots.

Do you even believe in that statement? Most bold routes were put by crusty old dudes when they were young, strong and stupid in proper climbing shoes (assuming it is anything harder than 5.10). Now they've grown up, they're all enjoying clipping bolts and they wouldn't tell you this, but they do own stick clips!

Youre right, cowboy boots are a stretch - just trying to make a point. I do believe in the idea though, to a certain extent. However, when I'm old, I'll do whatever I need to stay safe. For now, I climb at Granite Mtn., and I'm young, fit, and stupid like the guys that put routes up there when my parents were kids, so why not? --- Again, this is just my opinion, and a large part of what makes climbing fun FOR ME. I don't care how anybody else climbs. Just disregard this completely if you want since it really doesn't have to do with OP.

Doligo, I realize the contradictory statements I wrote. I'm not suggesting anyone bring a full trad rack to a sport climb. Maybe you look it up and gather beta before the climb. Maybe you show up with no beta and realize you can't climb it, then come back with the gear you need next time. Climbing can be a learning process.

csproul wrote: How about I climb the route how ever the fuck I want to climb the route?

Nailed it.

csproul wrote:BTW, I love run-out climbs. Stone Mtn is one of my favorite climbing areas, but I wouldn't care in the slightest if I saw someone stick clip there (better bring a long stick).

Does someone make a 60m stick clip? ;-)

JoeGaribay wrote:Good info. I certainly wouldn't want to take a fall in a dangerous situation. I guess I'm more interested in how the route setter intended it to be . I'm sure many routes have been set with the intention of the use of the stick. The route I'm basing my questions on is one that has been argued over for some time. It's a bolt war. An often placed bolt is continuously chopped because the initial run out 1st bolt is over a ledge. But it can be protected with a nut. Therefore not needing the stick. So then is it a sport route? Is it ok for sport climbers to be upset about having to use a piece of gear? Why wouldn't a sport climber want to expand their knowledge and practice using trad gear and mixing it up. I love mixed routes. They're perfect stepping stones for me to expand my climbing and grow.

There are no "route setters" outside. This is a term related to indoor climbing only.

JoeGaribay wrote:I'm not suggesting anyone bring a full trad rack to a sport climb.

It kinda depends on the area and local ethics. City of Rocks (ID) has the ethic that if there's a natural/trad placement available at the right spot, then there won't be a bolt there, even on the rap-bolted sport lines. Some great examples there:

• Lots of climbers get schooled on Bloody Fingers (10a) when they take only draws and get to the final 25' of 5.9 finger crack - with the last bolt 10+ feet below them.
• Riding on an Incline (11a) is all bolted, except for the 10d move that will have you whimpering if you didn't bring a #3 cam.
• Tennish Anyone (10a) is bolt protected - except for the first 40' that needs an assortment of trad gear.

JoeGaribay wrote:Somewhat different topic: I intend on sharing the specific route, which I enjoy climbing without a clip, though with my background in surfing, I'm reluctant to share the location. It's a sin to share surf spots with the outside world. I feel climbing isn't so tight. If you look at my file and are familiar with the area, I'm sure you'll figure out what route I'm speaking of.

None of that really applies if the route is in a guidebook in a developed area:
mountainproject.com/v/econo…

Marc801 wrote: It kinda depends on the area and local ethics. City of Rocks (ID) has the ethic that if there's a natural/trad placement available at the right spot, then there won't be a bolt there, even on the rap-bolted sport lines. Some great examples there: * Lots of climbers get schooled on Bloody Fingers (10a) when they take only draws and get to the final 25' of 5.9 finger crack - with the last bolt 10+ feet below them. * Riding on an Incline (11a) is all bolted, except for the 10d move that will have you whimpering if you didn't bring a #3 cam. * Tennish Anyone (10a) is bolt protected - except for the first 40' that needs an assortment of trad gear.

I think you have a different route than Bloody Fingers in mind. I don't remember a single bolt on that thing until the chains at the top.

Thanks RandyR. I am a newb and I make mistakes. Always learning.

And thanks Marc801. I approach my topics with caution. MP is informative. All the arguing and bickering is very welcomed by me. I like to see all opinions. One can learn just as much from wrong as they can right, or even just different mindsets and approaches to climbing.

Go to a place like the Red River Gorge or Rifle or Rumney without a stick clip and your life will get pretty exciting.