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How do you deal with crowds?

Original Post
Joe Garibay · · Ventura, Ca · Joined Apr 2014 · Points: 86

Where I climb, it is usually uncrowded. However, there are good crags near by that do get populated heavily. For the climbers in Colorado, I feel for you guys. It seems there are so many of you, I imagine it's tough. I climbed a popular spot called Pt. Dume in Malibu a few weeks ago. I made sure to get there and set up at the crack of dawn. First one there. But by the time we started there were 10 people. Everyone was sharing anchors and I was fighting off people to stay off mine. Then there were rappellers constantly running down on top of us. Rocks were flying. I got 1 quick run up, my partner got halfway up before an unannounced rock slapped him on the bill of his hat. I lowered him after that. We packed up and left. I'll never go back. It's a shame. Beautiful rock. Do we need to start making reservations for places like this?

highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion · · Colorado · Joined Oct 2012 · Points: 35

Travel in a small agile group of you and one other.

Don't toprope, lead a route, pull the rope, partner leads, cleans and you move on.

Warm up on 5.11 and get on harder routes after that.

This has worked for me everywhere but Dinosaur Rock, for there, you need tto come in the middle of the week.

Parker Wrozek · · Denver, CO · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 86

In Colorado all you have to do is be willing to hike a little bit and you never have crowds. If you drive some it is the same thing.

Either get up early or head out late if you are in CCC or BoCan. We have been doing a lot of Saturdays from 4-dusk lately and it is great. Everyone else is long gone.

Matt N · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 415

Get away from LA and climb with an approach.

There's so much uncrowded rock out there. You have to be more motivated than the common denominator to get there, though.

Next time, wait for a good S swell, then try surfing at Malibu and then try and complain about climbing crowds.

Joe Garibay · · Ventura, Ca · Joined Apr 2014 · Points: 86
Matt N wrote:Get away from LA and climb with an approach. There's so much uncrowded rock out there. You have to be more motivated than the common denominator to get there, though. Next time, wait for a good S swell, then try surfing at Malibu and then try and complain about climbing crowds.
Ha!so very true. That is why I mostly surf hollow beach breaks. Respectful, and serious surfers only and everyone can spread out. In the climbing world, this would be equal to a long approach and climbing harder grades.

As Jeff L. has been told, "Stay the F out of malibu!"
Winter will be here soon. Then I can go back to the nard
plantmandan · · Brighton, CO · Joined Sep 2010 · Points: 85
JoeGaribay wrote:For the climbers in Colorado, I feel for you guys.
That's completely unnecessary. The only problem here is not enough lifetimes to climb it all.

On a serious note, predicting crowds at climbing areas is just like predicting rush hour traffic.
20 kN · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2009 · Points: 1,346
plantmandan wrote: On a serious note, predicting crowds at climbing areas is just like predicting rush hour traffic.
hmmm, except that rush hour traffic is very well documented and predictable in any major city. Just ask Google Maps, it will tell you.

Anyway, the easiest way to avoid lines is to climb harder. The more you can climb, the more your options. Either that or go somewhere with an approach, as others have said.
Andy Bandos · · CO · Joined Aug 2013 · Points: 760
plantmandan wrote: That's completely unnecessary. The only problem here is not enough lifetimes to climb it all. On a serious note, predicting crowds at climbing areas is just like predicting rush hour traffic.
As a fellow front ranger, I must admit that you guys are a lot more tolerant to crowds then I am. The difference might be that I always leave the house with a set list of climbs I want to get on. I get kinda bummed when I have to wait or get on something else. If I'm climbing a moderate in Eldo I need to leave very early on the morning to be the first one there so I'm not waiting or having rock fall on my head. I don't know how many times I tried and had to turn around when I tried to bring a friend up the Bastille crack or Playing Hooky in CCC. If clipping bolts nearby I can guarantee that someone is already on the route I wanted to try and onsight. It gets better when you get on 11s, but it's super rare to have a good crag to yourself.

One thing that I've learned from living here is that there is always someone who gets up earlier than you, climbs harder, and does way more rad stuff then you could dream of.
Eric Klammer · · Eagle, CO · Joined Oct 2012 · Points: 2,070
Andy B wrote: As a fellow front ranger, I must admit that you guys are a lot more tolerant to crowds then I am. The difference might be that I always leave the house with a set list of climbs I want to get on. I get kinda bummed when I have to wait or get on something else. If I'm climbing a moderate in Eldo I need to leave very early on the morning to be the first one there so I'm not waiting or having rock fall on my head. I don't know how many times I tried and had to turn around when I tried to bring a friend up the Bastille crack or Playing Hooky in CCC. If clipping bolts nearby I can guarantee that someone is already on the route I wanted to try and onsight. It gets better when you get on 11s, but it's super rare to have a good crag to yourself. One thing that I've learned from living here is that there is always someone who gets up earlier than you, climbs harder, and does way more rad stuff then you could dream of.
The following is just my opinion, so take it with a grain of salt... If you can get out and explore a bit in Eldo there are no shortage of great routes that are rarely to never occupied. Obviously time will be a constraint on some days but if you're willing to hike a bit you can climb all day and see only a couple of other climbers. So far some of my favorite climbs in Eldo have been those picked out of the guidebook on a whim that lack stars but not fun climbing. Getting off the "big name" climbs and onto some obscurities will definitely bring adventure, and you will find some hidden gems along the way!
Joe Garibay · · Ventura, Ca · Joined Apr 2014 · Points: 86
plantmandan wrote: That's completely unnecessary. The only problem here is not enough lifetimes to climb it all. On a serious note, predicting crowds at climbing areas is just like predicting rush hour traffic.
Didn't mean to cast any kind of judgement. Solely based my opinion on the amount of activity I see on MP. Colorado is very apealing to me
NickMartel · · Tucson, Arizona · Joined Aug 2011 · Points: 1,332

Climb on weekdays and/or walk a bit.

Guy Keesee · · Moorpark, CA · Joined Mar 2008 · Points: 349

Joe.... you went to Pt. Dume... on a hot weekend. Just what did you expect to find?????

But to your OP..... Smile and don't be a hog, share "your" anchors with anyone who needs to use it.....Play your boom box with enuf volume so all can enjoy, share the smoke and the beers with all and try to pick up hawt chicks. Thats what I do....

At least you didn't get into a fist fight with a "sport raper" like my friend did.

Joe Garibay · · Ventura, Ca · Joined Apr 2014 · Points: 86

Haha Guy! Yea it's a party out there. I had never been even though it's close to home. Thought I could sneak in an early one. No fights for me. I was aggressive enough as a kid. I simply let them know their faults. When they chose not to learn, I decided I would just leave. Most places I climb around here are much more uncrowded or farther out. Ojai is a dream in that way.

Tony B · · Around Boulder, CO · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 24,665

Serious studies have proven that the crowd at a crag/climb in any given area is quite closely correlated to # of stars in the book (online as well) and distance from the car.
There are other influneces, but I have to agree that when I am willing to walk a ways in, willing to climb climbs with fewer stars, or run it out a bit, I have no problems. Pretty much never.

I'm not sure what your status is as a climber, but yeah, being limited to TR or sport lead of moderate routes pretty much means crowds. I avoid those areas for those reasons and general lack of interest... I am a multi-pitch trad guy who seeks out "every" climb, including the obscure... so I can't legitimately speak about any breadth of experience in areas like Cat Slab or Canal Zone (moderate sport climbing with TR anchors) on a nice weekend day, when I'll be damned if I get caught there.

Best of luck!

Tony B · · Around Boulder, CO · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 24,665
plantmandan wrote: On a serious note, predicting crowds at climbing areas is just like predicting rush hour traffic.
"Same as it ever was."
Joy likes trad · · Southern California · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 71

Develop and area and tell nobody.

Guy Keesee · · Moorpark, CA · Joined Mar 2008 · Points: 349

Joe.... send me a Email.... I will give out some of the info I have. But you must be willing to do some driving, not to much close to Ventura.... why do you think that the FIRST THING the new owners did when they purchased Chounard Equipment was to get the heck out of Dodge for greener pastures.....

Or just look at the MP pages, almost all are in there but all the info is so disorganized its very hard to figure it out.....

I just love MP... they made the Owens Valley part of Northern California, and split the Sierra into incomprehensible geographical divisions.

Tony B · · Around Boulder, CO · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 24,665
Guy Keesee wrote: I just love MP... they made the Owens Valley part of Northern California, and split the Sierra into incomprehensible geographical divisions.
Generally, that means that someone submitted it that way.
Dave Miller · · Boulder · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 0

Hike.

Alex Washburne · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 65

Hike, climb hard, climb harder, climb trad in sport crags, hedge your bets, and/or motivate a pay-to-climb policy for crags.

Or you could tell everyone that climbing is awful. Think of the most contagiously psyche-sapping stories of outdoors climbing you can imagine and tell them to everyone, especially newbies n the gym. Tell them stories about crowded crags with rocks falling and anchors blowing and mountain lions attacking and landowners shooting... that should keep them inside.

But seriously,
I wish we could all climb free, vacant well-bolted wilderness-rock all the time the same way I wish we could just hunt anything that tickles our fancy or cut down a good looking redwood to build our house on the frontier... man, those were the good old days. Nowadays, there are a lot of people with the means and the drive to do what only rich white people could do before, so we're feeling the multiplied effect of more people and each person having a greater opportunity to consume finite resources (crag-time).

Meanwhile, despite increases in outdoors recreation, conservation groups and access foundations are wondering how to raise money from non-consumptive users. These institutions use money to do wonderful things like maintain trails, bolts, and access, and if they could reliably obtain money from non-consumptive users we could ensure that people pay for their footprint at the crag and benefit the greater goal of keeping these places well-managed for future generations of climbers & hikers.

Pay-per-climb might suck because then poor people couldn't climb (for the record they also can't hunt bull elk or cut down big trees in many places, but we don't seem to complain about that) but also it means that precisely the people who use the resources are paying for them, and paying for their conservation. If climbers, hikers & birders could raise the kind of money that Game & Fish departments raise, they could have some serious clout in determining how our public spaces are used (including the prevention of over-use). They could implement, for instance, a reservation policy so that you can plan ahead to get the Casual Route, High E, or whatever route you dream of climbing (with priority given to people who haven't climbed the route before).

Just a few thoughts. Hope ya'll get out to climb soon!

Steven Groetken · · Durango, CO · Joined Sep 2012 · Points: 390

"For the climbers in Colorado, I feel for you guys."

It ain't so bad if you live 7 hours away from the gangbang that is the greater Denver/Boulder metro area. I'm sure you already know the answer to the question. One of my buddies, who is a hunting guide for elk summed it up pretty good, which translates to most outdoor activities. " if you want to get an elk every ten years, you hunt off the road, every five years a mile off the road, every year, ten miles off the road."

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

General Climbing
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