change.org petition against the AMC's new Crawford Notch hut/ update NHPR story to air today
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Announcements about this project have been pretty quiet, thus opposing voices have been quiet. Hopefully people with more clout and expertise will become involved, but a derailment effort has to start somewhere. You're effort in spreading the word and your signature are both valuable: |
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$200 a night per person? Where is this # coming from? |
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"Issues Already Identified to Meet Criteria Several issues have been identified including: 1. Impacts on the alpine zone; 2. impacts on Threatened and Endangered species; 3. impacts to cultural resources 4. impacts on native plants and animals; 5. impacts on water resources; 6. impacts on soil" |
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$100 per night, per adult person. Exact figures won't be known until after construction. Could be $80, $100, or $120. Whatever the cost, it will be excessive. Use will not be broad based because the cost is prohibitive. |
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Yes, those issues have been identified, but studies and surveys have not been completed. Construction need has not been established and the Parks System is already on board. |
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"It has provided no statistical analysis stating that this is a beneficent project, that this hut is the best possible use of this land for the greatest number of forest users. The initiative for this project could very well be profit driven." |
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chris magness wrote:Announcements about this project have been pretty quiet, thus opposing voices have been quiet. Hopefully people with more clout and expertise will become involved, but a derailment effort has to start somewhere. You're effort in spreading the word and your signature are both valuable: change.org/p/forest-users-w…The info on that page link is even more vague - sounds like a typical knee-jerk reaction. So there's a new hut on what, a whole half acre footprint? And an enlarged roadside parking area at an existing trailhead in an area of the Whites that is hardly anything even remotely approaching natural, pristine, or wilderness. I don't see the outrage or the need for derailment. |
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Oh no!! The AMC is building another hut for families who pump money into the local economy.. Let's get out the pitch forks and torches! |
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In the backcountry? Not even.. Exploitation? Nope.. That hut is a solution to the ever growing population that wants to experience the outdoors. |
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Bill Kirby wrote: In the backcountry? Not even.. Exploitation? Nope.. That hut is a solution to the ever growing population that wants to experience the outdoors. You wanna play that small violin.. Check out Jumbo ski resort. That was sad to witness.Just wondering what you are basing your opinion on?? You do not live up here so is it from personal experience or based on some study that you can produce? I do live up here and my experience is that it is not needed. In fact IMO they are trying to create a need in order to produce a profit. There are many other org.s up here that maintain trails and they are not proposing new huts. So please explain your position with facts and details that can be vetted. I am truly interested. Make sure your facts are not produced by a money trail as that is not the intended purpose of our National Forests. |
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DavidLG wrote:Make sure your facts are not produced by a money trail as that is not the intended purpose of our National Forests.Nope. National Forests were never intended to make money. foresthistory.org/ASPNET/Pu… |
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Really? You've never walked in any Congo lines up to Tuckermen's in the spring? Heard people bitch because there's no parking. How bout complaining that all huts are booked that one weekend the whole family was able to get out? I've heard or experienced every one of the above. Face it the Whites are becoming more crowded so more huts are needed. |
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Marc801 wrote: Nope. National Forests were never intended to make money. foresthistory.org/ASPNET/Pu…I stand corrected but AMC is a non profit org. Thanks Marc for the accurate response. |
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Bill Kirby wrote:Really? You've never walked in any Congo lines up to Tuckermen's in the spring? Heard people bitch because there's no parking. How bout complaining that all huts are booked that one weekend the whole family was able to get out? I've heard or experienced every one of the above. Face it the Whites are becoming more crowded so more huts are needed. How many times have you taken West Side Road to bypass ski traffic last winter? I spend three weeks in North Conway every winter. i won't in the summer because of the crowds. If you were to propose this in the Adirondacks I would feel the same way you do but the Whites are crazy busy! I'm sorry if my experiences aren't good enough but opinions are like @ssholes right?Bill you may be confused by not living up in the area full time. What you are talking about doesn't address this specific area or hut. Since camping in the entire Nat Forest is free the hut is not necessary esp in an area that is not being demanded by the people to be developed but by an organization.Car traffic will not change by adding a hut except possibly in a negative way. Huts are not ever needed in Spring,Summer or Fall. The only time that they might be needed is in the Winter which it is implied by your statement to not be the busy season. You are going by the theory of build it and they will come. If we follow this and start do the Daks the same way they will become the Whites. AMC has done a lot of good but in their development of huts they have created a need that did not exist. Sounds more like strategy for a profit org. to follow. I am still interested in some details of why this hut should be built along with a new trail in an area that might already be in decline through use. I am not trying to shut you down just trying to bring out more information and discussion. |
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The AMC is a non-profit organization, with a CEO that pulls down 350K. They have a long history of understating costs of their projects, which then come in for 50% more. Highland Center was proposed to cost 9 million and came in at 14. |
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DavidLG wrote: Bill you may be confused by not living up in the area full time. What you are talking about doesn't address this specific area or hut. Since camping in the entire Nat Forest is free the hut is not necessary esp in an area that is not being demanded by the people to be developed but by an organization.Car traffic will not change by adding a hut except possibly in a negative way. Huts are not ever needed in Spring,Summer or Fall. The only time that they might be needed is in the Winter which it is implied by your statement to not be the busy season. You are going by the theory of build it and they will come. If we follow this and start do the Daks the same way they will become the Whites. AMC has done a lot of good but in their development of huts they have created a need that did not exist. Sounds more like strategy for a profit org. to follow. I am still interested in some details of why this hut should be built along with a new trail in an area that might already be in decline through use. I am not trying to shut you down just trying to bring out more information and discussion.The AMC is also building more parking. The parking is crazy at Frankenstein on the weekends. Huts are great year round. It's nice not to have to carry a tent and cook sometimes. I can see where that would draw more people out and how you see that as a bad thing. You're misinterpreting.. I'm not saying build it and they will come. I'm saying the people are already there so give them a hut in another area to stay in. No hard feelings here. I understand we have different opinions is all. |
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The following is a quote from Jack Tarlin which adds some support to what both Tom and I have stated; |
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Adding parking means only that. When the lot is full, go somewhere else. Making the lot bigger just increases the load on Frankenstein. Same goes for the Kanc pull-offs, the actual attraction can't be made bigger ( Rocky Gorge ), so increased parking just adds to the problem. |
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From a post I made elsewhere in the last year: |
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I have never thought there should be ANY huts in the White Mountains..In this case, what about highland Center, a couple miles away ??? That's got parking in a pretty dangerous setting I think |
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Wow, I didn't know that the AMC was like a big union. I guess greed can change any organization You guys certainly changed my mind. |