Jtree "rescue"?

Greg Petliski wrote: Where is there a walk off on intersection? Unless youre at the ledge where the right hand ski track starts, its not a walk off. You have to either rap twice from the mikes books side, or double rope rap from top, or single rap to aforementioned ledge. You admit to having little experience in rescue, and you went ahead and assisted someone with non-life threatening injuries, in a super popular and easily accessible area, when you also admit to basing your whole safety system on a single cam and some feature that the admittedly inexperienced climber used. Just my 2c since you asked, but it feels like you just really wanted to be the hero, which is a natural human condition, to want to help someone, but you let that feeling get in the way of good judgement, which would have been to ensure the victim is stable, and that is all. Awesome no one got hurt any further. Hope the guy or his friend bought you some beer or something! The instinct to help others can be so powerful that we are blinded to the hazards we may be entering, or may be creating.

This.

Medic741 wrote:This really isn't a 'good for you' scenario - the negligence you displayed here is borderline criminal, and if he had been injured and his family pressed charges you would have had no defense.

He is not a professional rescuer and my guess is you are not a professional lawyer.

Rick Blair wrote: He is not a professional rescuer and my guess is you are not a professional lawyer.

Perfect!

Greg Petliski wrote: when you also admit to basing your whole safety system on a single cam and some feature that the admittedly inexperienced climber used.

It sounded to me like he protected the first 20 feet of his "rescue lead" with a single cam, not his "whole safety system." (whatever that is) Whenever we start a lead, there is only going to be a single piece of pro in the beginning.

FrankPS wrote: Perfect! It sounded to me like he protected the first 20 feet of his "rescue lead" with a single cam, not his "whole safety system." (whatever that is) Whenever we start a lead, there is only going to be a single piece of pro in the beginning.

The fact that he is not a professional rescuer, had no clue what he was doing, and acted in a way that could have killed a climber that was in a safer position at the time is negligent!

And yes, his piece he put in isn't a problem IMO.
The problem is he allowed a known novice with no skills to loop a sling around something and then forgo putting a harness on (because the guy was so novice he didn't know how to put it on) and then allowed the guy to just tie the rope around his waist, and THEN he actually put the guy on belay and lowered him, having NO idea whether the sling was even remotely safe, or would hold weight, and also having NO idea whether the guy tied the knot around his waist correctly. There was nothing smart, or heroic about what happened. Only that he's extremely lucky he didn't kill the guy.

Micah Klesick wrote: The fact that he is not a professional rescuer, had no clue what he was doing, and acted in a way that could have killed a climber that was in a safer position at the time is negligent! And yes, his piece he put in isn't a problem IMO. The problem is he allowed a known novice with no skills to loop a sling around something and then forgo putting a harness on (because the guy was so novice he didn't know how to put it on) and then allowed the guy to just tie the rope around his waist, and THEN he actually put the guy on belay and lowered him, having NO idea whether the sling was even remotely safe, or would hold weight, and also having NO idea whether the guy tied the knot around his waist correctly. There was nothing smart, or heroic about what happened. Only that he's extremely lucky he didn't kill the guy.

I was thinking the same thing.

Good samaritan laws would not save you from an expensive lawsuit if something were to go wrong. You would not be posting on MP if something did go wrong. This is pure ego stroking, nothing more.

Micah Klesick wrote: The fact that he is not a professional rescuer, had no clue what he was doing, and acted in a way that could have killed a climber that was in a safer position at the time is negligent! And yes, his piece he put in isn't a problem IMO. The problem is he allowed a known novice with no skills to loop a sling around something and then forgo putting a harness on (because the guy was so novice he didn't know how to put it on) and then allowed the guy to just tie the rope around his waist, and THEN he actually put the guy on belay and lowered him, having NO idea whether the sling was even remotely safe, or would hold weight, and also having NO idea whether the guy tied the knot around his waist correctly. There was nothing smart, or heroic about what happened. Only that he's extremely lucky he didn't kill the guy.

I agree that allowing the clueless victim to sling a horn was a bad idea, considering he didn't appear to know what he was doing.

I don't think you need to be a "professional rescuer" to help someone, as long as you don't make it worse by further endangering the victim or rescuer's lives.

I didn't get the impression he thought he was being a "hero" by helping. A couple of people have used that term, but not the OP.

And I commend the OP for posting this on MP for a critique, despite getting lambasted in the process.

thanks for all the input guys.

I do believe now that waiting for rescue to arrive was the best thing to do. I've just always been one to try and help my fellow man out. But given he was "safe" just very uncomfortable the best way to help my fellow man out in THIS scenario was to probably just talk to him keep him calm and wait for rescue.

He did get to the ground safe and rode out on his own which at the end of it all was the goal.

I just wanna say that this was most certainly not "ego stroking". I feel my original post was very humble. Just want to make it clear I am not that type of guy! Just wanted to learn all I could from taking a step back, writing it out, and hearing from experience. And that is exactly what i got and I think that's great and what forums like this are intended to provide.

Thanks again.

also, some of the strikes that were posted are invalid and the original post must not have been entirely read before the firing began. So if anyone is looking to learn from this themselves please read the thread through entirely!

.... Good on you for helping. But remember this, if you killed the dude, it would have been on YOU. SAR guys are never that happy when a civilian helps out, that has been my experience many times.

And to Greg who said:

"Where is there a walk off on intersection? Unless youre at the ledge where the right hand ski track starts, its not a walk off. You have to either rap twice from the mikes books side, or double rope rap from top, or single rap to aforementioned ledge."

You are correct there is no walk off ..........but the
right SKI track starts at the bottom...with your feet on the dirt. One can avoid the hard part by skipping this.... its named "The Upper Right SKI Track" just to keep everything clear.

You said "game on." Clearly there was some ego involved when you decided that some rescue "practice" for you, was more important this this dudes safety. Lol, then you were clearly seeking some praise on your actions, unknowing of the harm you may have caused. As others have said - YOU GOT LUCKY ON SO MANY LEVELS.
Good on you for acknowledging what you should have done in hindsight, but it might also help you in the future to acknowledge that your ego may have had it's hands in this. Whether it was subconscious, and you just haven't realized the subtle ways ego dictates us, or you already realize you were ego driven and don't want to admit it... either way, check yo' self...and please, next time you see somebody in need of rescue - Do not immediately respond with delight that you'll be getting to practice some of the skills you recently may or may not have learned. Think things over for a few minutes. Considering your level of experience with rescue, and rock climbing in general (I'm assuming you don't have too many miles under your belt, considering you couldn't climb the bottom of Mike's books or the Southeast Corner comfortably to get up to this dude). Again that's an assumption of where this guy was based on your story. Knowing the area I think it's the most likely case...

Anyways, seems like you know what you should have done. Just make sure you get some real experience before you attempt something like that again, either in a controlled environment with a mentor to teach you, or through years of experience getting yourself into, and out of occasional epics...

Rich Welker wrote:Damn. Why risk both your lives for a non life threatening injury? Just curious.

Bingo

Sorry for sounding harsh... Just sayin'.. Given your tone in the original post, it doesn't seem like you ever had a thought along the lines of - "Hmmm, what if MY lack of expertise could put this guy in more danger?" No sense of how your actions can have an effect on others. That's the ego part; you were only thinking of yourself in the moment, even though you believe it was all for the rescue...

Rusty Finkelstein wrote:That's the ego part; you were only thinking of yourself in the moment, even though you believe it was all for the rescue...

dang. apparently i need to get on this whole mind reading from across the internet band wagon! haha nah man i get where your coming from for sure. but i certainly was not looking at this as simply practice for myself. Human life is to precious for that!

kdionise wrote: dang. apparently i need to get on this whole mind reading from across the internet band wagon! haha nah man i get where your coming from for sure. but i certainly was not looking at this as simply practice for myself. Human life is to precious for that!

This'll teach you to ask for a critique on the Internet! :)

Sorry for the mind reading, I know it's dangerous... and perhaps coming from my own ego :) BUT the fact remains, you say human life is precious... that's clear to you now, but clearly it was not in the moment. That is why I think it's pretty safe to assume that maybe your ego was involved when you started your "rescue mission."

^^^ hah very true. Tough critique is good tho and no need to get butt hurt.

First, good for you for helping though, as others expressed, you need to look out for both the victim and YOURSELF when jumping into things. Sounds kind of like jumping in to save some drunk dude who thought he knew how to swim. If it doesn't go well you could both be toast, all because the dumb ass put himself in that spot in the first place. If he dies, it's Darwinism in action; if you die as well, it's a regrettable tragedy. Lesson learned I guess.

Second, I'm having a really hard time visualizing where on Intersection this could have been. Someone mentioned Mike's Books, but the first pitch is about half a rope length, certainly more than 20'. Maybe that ledge/alcove at the base of the dihedral on the first pitch? There also that broken area to the right of the Waterchute...Couldn't be the ledge at the base of Right Ski Track, since you can walk off that.

Also, was this guy even wearing shoes, a chalk bag, etc.? Was it just some guy who bought a pair of shoes and wanted to imitate climbers? The whole thing is very strange.

Fat Dad wrote: The whole thing is very strange.

Since so many assumptions have been cast here I am going to guess he faked the injury just to create this rescue situation to see how it would be dealt with on the Mountain Project internet climbing forum.

Any of you know what happened to the Malaysian airliner?

Here is one thing that no one mentioned:

What if the guy had a head injury? His actions seem to be rather erratic. He was soloing and didn't know how to tie into a harness? Possible, but also possible he was perfectly competent and had a head injury - he just fell who knows how many feet. and then he eventually gets down and wants to ride off on a motorcycle? My vote is head injury and if so, you did him no favors by getting him down and letting him ride off on his bike. He likely needed medical attention.

It's admirable that you wanted to help and you did manage to get him down safely although there may have been better ways to do it. That said, I would be hesitant to jump in if it appeared the climber was ok where he was and someone had already went for help. I would probably be on standby. Maybe I would climb up next to him and see if he needed first aid. Attempting to rescue/lower someone when you're not entirely sure of what you are doing and help is on the way, is generally not a good idea...

Wally!Beaver! Don't make me come over there! Coulda been bad, looks like maybe it turned out OK can we go climbing now