Rappel accident in the Gunks on 7/25

I'd think downside of using your rack as a weight is that if for some reason you need to stop and build an anchor during the actual rappel you will need to hope it can be pulled back up.

Without reading the entire four pages of this post...

I would wonder why on a busy Saturday, on one of the most popular climbs in the Gunks and in the most crowded part of the Trapps, with a route that often has a queue of parties waiting for the route and an often rapped route, with the intermediate rap station in full view from the ground...why the heck didn't anyone on the ground happen to notice the situation and alert the women of the problem!

It doesn't take a seasoned mountaineer to see that two ends of the rope need to be on the ground.

People are often looking upwards at Horseman, Apoplexy, Laurel, Rhodo, etc.

Where was the concept of "looking out for other climbers"? Didn't anyone happen to notice?

This whole thing is very sad!

First off glad the injuries are not more severe and hope for a fast recovery. I knew a climber that died from repelling off the end.

Thought I would add my story about not tying a knot. I try to always tie a knot when I am repelling a multipitch, cant see the ground, and or center of rope is not at chains. During this winter I was scouting a 22 pitch multipitch by myself repelling it. A storm was coming in so I was in a rush. I remembered the next two pitches being short so I decided to combine the repel. I skipped the first belay station and soon found myself free hanging with the route taking a far traverse. I kept repelling hoping there was a repel station strait below (some pitches had middle repel stations to avoid traverses) I found myself with 4 feet of rope left, free hanging with not chains insight and no knot (I was using a basic atc). I quickly pulled up the rope with my other hand and tied a knot with my off hand and mouth. Went down and rested on the knots 75 feet off the ground 8 feet away from the wall while I reevaluated my situation.

The point is if you are aware of the rope below you while repelling in most circumstances you can pretty easily tie a knot if needed while hanging there. That being said a knot from the beginning is much better and safer.

First, a word of thanks to KathyS and her friends for working on the rescue.

Next, a word of caution about criticizing who should have said what to whom.

For those of you who have not climbed Horseman, the belay station in question is significantly to the left of the start, above the right end of what is known as Doug's Roof.

The party below is usually looking at what's going on at the traverse but not so easily at the belay station.

Any other parties may or may not have seen one rope drop. KathyS's party was absorbed in what was happening to the left of them, not to the right at Horseman's belay.

Sometimes there are multiple (safe and unsafe) things going on at the same time, and there might not have been as many experienced eyes as inexperienced ones.

I happen to believe that the Gunks climbing community is above average in its caring, attention, communications and assistance, most of the time, in most places.

Doesn't mean that there is a guardian angel there to protect every one of us when people do things wrong.

Thanks, Gunks people.

Guardian Angle...maybe not so much.

But what happened to the process..."ROPE": people on the ground look up: "CLEAR"; pile of rope comes slamming down, unfortunately, this time with only one end: "HEY, ONLY ONE END DOWN"

This just common fellow climber communication.

Just seems like a whole bunch of bad circumstances.

Again very sad and troubling.

I don't know but from what I have read here the issue was possibly one side of the rope wasn't threaded through the device, or more likely, the rap biner, in which case knots or ends on the ground don't change a thing.

Tom Stryker wrote:I don't know but from what I have read here the issue was possibly one side of the rope wasn't threaded through the device, or more likely, the rap biner, in which case knots or ends on the ground don't change a thing.

Again, from Kathy S's post, who was actually there:
"I could see her belay device and backup prussic attached to her harness with only one strand of the rope remaining threaded through each."

Greg Petliski wrote: You would absolutely love Deep Survival by Lawrence Gonzales if you havent already read it. Talks about stuff like this in depth. Amazing stuff, should be required reading for anyone who spends time out of doors.

+1 for Deep Survival.

Exactly.

Some people think that there are situations where tying a knot in the end of the rope my be inconvenient.

There is a distinct difference between convenient and deadly - this is why I tie a knot without question.

Chris Owen wrote:Some people think that there are situations where tying a knot in the end of the rope my be inconvenient. There is a distinct difference between convenient and deadly - this is why I tie a knot without question.

When the knot jams someplace not easily accessible the situation can progress from inconvenient to deadly pretty quickly.

Eric Engberg wrote: When the knot jams someplace not easily accessible the situation can progress from inconvenient to deadly pretty quickly.

Unless it is windy, in which case the ends of the rope will be clipped to the first person down, how could a knot get stuck out of reach?

The only way I can think is if you didn't remove a knot before pulling. If this is the concern, tie the ends together (with modern belay plates I don't find this twists the ropes), or again, clip the ends to you with clove hitches and release these just as you reach the next chain.

Sorry if I missed something - didn't read the whole thread.

When the knot jams someplace not easily accessible the situation can progress from inconvenient to deadly pretty quickly.

Knots equal stuck ropes.
Stuck ropes are deadly.
Ropes without knots get firmly stuck upon occasion. (Happened to me the other day on Cannon.)
Therefore ropes without knots are deadly.
Conclusion: To be safe dispense with the rope and either walk off or down climb the entire route you just struggled up.

Yes it is silly. But the point is it is important to keep in mind the context of this thread. Many reading this thread are very thoughtful and experienced veteran climbers. Some contributors to it have 40+ years experience. Many others I would guess might be just starting out.

Alex Ch earlier in the thread nicely put the focus on this point with the following:

Wear seat belts. Tie knots on your ropes. Learn the rules then "break them" when you know when and why to break them.

I would edit Alex's post slightly. Wear seat belts. Tie knots on your ropes. Learn the rules then "break them" when you know when and why and how to break them.

I would venture that if Eric doesn't know all the rules and how to best break them he must be pretty darn close. However there are a lot of people, me included, that are still stumbling our way forward and working our way through Climbing Rules 101.

And if you are just starting on "Climbing Rules 101" I would advise a day or two spent with a guide introducing you to climbing or taking an introduction to climbing course would be an extremely worthwhile investment. BTW the way the Boston AMC offers an excellent such course each Spring. It is given by several really experienced and truly qualified instructors, Eric not least among them.

BTW any update on the outcome for the injured party? Hoping she is experiencing a rapid and complete recovery.

Bill Neacy

Thanks for the compliments Bill - whether deserved or not. Your and Alex's summaries are spot on. I'll add a few variations:

1. There are few absolutes - its seldom black and white.
2. Accidents happen - not always completely preventable.
3. Be leery of advice containing the words "always" or "never".

David Coley wrote: Unless it is windy, in which case the ends of the rope will be clipped to the first person down, how could a knot get stuck out of reach?

Well, not out of reach, but stuck below the stance, requiring a further rappel down to almost the very end of the ropes, freeing the knots (both jammed in a crack), and prusiking back up. That burned enough time that some other raps had to be done in the dark. Whether that was an "inconvenience" or a "danger" can only really be decided from the outcome: no one got hurt as a result.

Eric Engberg wrote:When the knot jams someplace not easily accessible the situation can progress from inconvenient to deadly pretty quickly.

Just how quickly? Would you be accelerating at a rate of 9.8 m/s^2 to your death?

Hope the climber is okay. I wish her a speedy physical recovery, and hope that she gets the support of compassionate and encouraging friends and outdoors enthusiasts who can help her get psyched about getting back outdoors.

I also hope people on MP can get in a habit of staying considerate about the patient and her affected friends & family when writing on these posts about fallen climbers. Let's not pee into our own pool of outdoors folk - inconsiderate things said here on MP can upset the same people we climb next to and who might save our butts out there on the cliffs. Let's objectively analyze possible causes, be compassionate of user error and know that the error may not be the user but our collective ineffectiveness at educating him/her, perhaps by inadequate mentorship, bravado ("just grab some cams and go! Take a few falls and you'll be alright") and other ways that subcultures in climbing culture may improperly socialize new recruits. Maybe she was hugely inexperienced and being "guided" by her partner, in which case we need to emphasize the importance of responsibility of leaders to make sure everyone in their party is safe. Maybe she was put in a position of leadership because she really wanted to climb and nobody more experienced wanted to give back and climb 5.5's with psyched leader-to-be. Or maybe it's dumb luck. In any case, it's possible to analyze these factors in a way that is constructive - talk to MP as if you were talking to the love of your life and you're going to spend a lot of time not just sharing the crag with them, but possibly counting on them on a day of our own dumb luck.

I hope the fallen climber gets this message. On behalf of all the chest-thumping jerks out here, I want to extend my support. I hope you get well soon, and hope we meet up sometime at the Gunks or beyond!!

MP is now quoted as a source by the mags ...

rockandice.com/climbing-acc…

Well said, Alex.