Rappel accident in the Gunks on 7/25

In climbing there are good habits and bad,like anything else . If you tie knots every time you rappel, you will eventually form a good habit.

christopher adams wrote: I thought it was funny, and astute. Unless you're doing highballs, you're almost always at less risk for injury or death while bouldering. Unless maybe you're allergic to stinging insects? Anyway, best of luck to the recovering climber.

Death, sure but injury I'm not sure about. Go to the Northern Inyo Hospital on a busy weekend and see the wreckage. The few times I have been there I saw multiple bouldering injuries(including my fiances shattered talus) in the ER

Any update on the climber? Hope she's okay with no serious injury.

In general I try to avoid rapping and walk off any route near the uberfall. I often climb with my teenage son and while he's rappelled numerous routes I prefer not to rely on my gear. When my son was younger and we had to rap I'd often lower him a full rope length and then do two rappels by myself, which was faster. This was especially useful if a single rope could get him all the way to the ground.

Horseman can be done as a single 120' pitch with a walk-off to the uberfall. Much faster than an intermediate belay and then a rappel. Of course, if the leader ran out of gear or they wanted to practice multi-pitch I can see stopping mid-way. Or maybe it was late in the day and they decided they didn't have the time to finish.

Speedy recovery to the injured climber.

That is what I said in harsher terms...

Lots of good advice thus far, but one trick has not been mentioned for use when it’s windy so that tying knots in the ends of rope is inadvisable. This technique works best on steep terrain.

Tie a figure-8 loop into each end of the rope. Then clip gear into each loop. If you have enough gear, the weight of the gear will keep the ropes from being blown around as they are lowered. Clipping gear onto the rope is easier than either lowering your partner or saddle bags.

Rob.calm

TheIceManCometh wrote:In general I try to avoid rapping and walk off any route near the uberfall. I often climb with my teenage son and while he's rappelled numerous routes I prefer not to rely on my gear. When my son was younger and we had to rap I'd often lower him a full rope length and then do two rappels by myself, which was faster. This was especially useful if a single rope could get him all the way to the ground. Horseman can be done as a single 120' pitch with a walk-off to the uberfall. Much faster than an intermediate belay and then a rappel. Of course, if the leader ran out of gear or they wanted to practice multi-pitch I can see stopping mid-way. Or maybe it was late in the day and they decided they didn't have the time to finish. Speedy recovery to the injured climber.

it was early in the day and from what was described, I believe that they were doing two rappels. A 70m makes it to the ground in one rappel, or like you've said simply walking off the uberfall is much faster and obviously safer.

I don't always tie knots in the ends of my rope. But, when I do I use the Dos Equis knot.

Very sorry to hear this. I wish the injured climber a speedy recovery.

Really sounds like only one strand of the rope was through the atc esp if the rope comes down with the climber, Hope the affected party heals well.

Honestly, I would never tie gear into the ends of my rope for weight and lower the ends. Too easy to get stuff gear in trees, cracks, etc. The better thing to do in windy conditions is to saddlebag the rope ends. It takes a touch longer to set up, but can save lots time fishing rope out of places it does not belong. You can make sure both ends of the rope end up on the same side of that tree growing out of the cliff below you. It's also useful when rapping in an area where other parties are still climbing up. You won't drop the rope on anyone's head. And, keeping this relevant to the current thread, you'll always know how much rope you have left.

I agree; given the two better options we have and all the mischief a pile of gear could get into, I wouldn't even consider lowering gear down unless the rappel overhangs all the way so that the ropes are always hanging away from the rock. Even then, I'd be suffering from separation anxiety with all that crucial stuff far away at the end of a rope. So yeah, I guess I'd never do it either.

I have had pretty good luck taking the knife out of my chalkbag, putting some rocks in it and using that.

I'd lower the first person before bothering with saddlebags personally, bags are not a sure thing, and seem to me a lot of work.

rgold wrote:I agree; given the two better options we have and all the mischief a pile of gear could get into, I wouldn't even consider lowering gear down unless the rappel overhangs all the way so that the ropes are always hanging away from the rock. Even then, I'd be suffering from separation anxiety with all that crucial stuff far away at the end of a rope. So yeah, I guess I'd never do it either.

One sensible bit of advice in this thread is that the procedure one uses for rappelling is situational. The above comment says that lowering the rope with gear attached is sometimes not advisable so never use it. I’ve used it dozens of times without any problem. And when appropriate, it’s faster and less cumbersome then lowering or saddle bags.

The writer often advocates lowering. This is a good technique, but it has its limitations, e.g., very often it should not be used if one’s partner is a beginning climber. That doesn’t imply it should never be used.

I won’t comment on how to deal with “separation anxiety” since it’s an area in which I have no professional competence.

Rob.calm

rgold wrote:I agree; given the two better options we have and all the mischief a pile of gear could get into, I wouldn't even consider lowering gear down unless the rappel overhangs all the way so that the ropes are always hanging away from the rock. Even then, I'd be suffering from separation anxiety with all that crucial stuff far away at the end of a rope. So yeah, I guess I'd never do it either.

A while back at a cliff, heard a loud crash of gear hitting the deck, turned and looked at a whole rack on the ground attached to the end of some ropes hanging from the cliff.
A newbie 100 foot up had thrown his rack at the end of his ropes to ensure the ropes would reach the ground.
After we explained to him the idiocy of his action, he seemed unconcerned about the damage he had probably inflicted on his shinny new rack.

I only started following this because some may have gotten hurt and this thread has turned into one absurd comment after another. Hope the climber is recovering and gets back out there soon!

These threads all go the same way friend - the thread starter posts limited information of an accident, people speculate, give their 2 cents, make blanket statements, argue a little bit, then move on to the next one.

Sometimes there are lessons to be learned and advice given, but you have to pick through and make your own judgments. It is very sad to continue to read about rapping off the ends of a rope though, I must say.

All the best to the injured and wishing her a speedy and complete recovery.
I thought a single 60m is long enough to rap from the lower, intermediate anchor on this route, assuming the ends are equal.
It has been more than 15 years since I last climbed this route so my memory of it is not all that good.

S. Neoh wrote:I thought a single 60m is long enough to rap from the lower, intermediate anchor on this route, assuming the ends are equal.

Waaaay up-thread on page 2, Kathy S. wrote:
"I could see her belay device and backup prussic attached to her harness with only one strand of the rope remaining threaded through each. The whole rope came down with her and left the partner marooned at the 1st belay on Horseman.
[snip]
Horseman was to my right and my friend to my left, so I was looking away and didn't see the single strand of rope hanging down."

The rope ends weren't equal

rob.calm wrote: One sensible bit of advice in this thread is that the procedure one uses for rappelling is situational. The above comment says that lowering the rope with gear attached is sometimes not advisable so never use it. I’ve used it dozens of times without any problem. And when appropriate, it’s faster and less cumbersome then lowering or saddle bags.

In my experience, I'd say "rarely advisable," as in I've never had occasion to use it in the course of thousands of rappels. But of course these judgements are situational and everyone's situation---and more importantly their evaluation of it---is different, so by all means lower away your gear if you find it useful to do so.

rob.calm wrote: I won’t comment on how to deal with “separation anxiety” since it’s an area in which I have no professional competence.

The crack about "separation anxiety" was meant to indicate I had arguably irrational reasons for not wanting to use this technique.