Turkey vs. Thailand for Jan-Feb sport climbing trip

I have January and February (plus maybe March) free this winter, and am looking into what my options are. It looks like the cards are lining up well for an international trip. To a large degree, my motivations are based to wanting to avoid winter in the States (which, if you ask me, is pretty lacking in true winter destinations--even J-Tree can be pretty cold in January). Am psyched on limestone sprt climbing. I am looking mostly at Thailand (Tonsai) and Turkey (Anatalya area). I am looking for opinions from people who are familiar with both places, and am especially interested in information about Turkey, since this is not as well publicized a destination.

Anyway, here is what I am looking for:

--Good weather in Jan/Feb (not too cold at night, nor insanely hot/humid during the day)

--Enduro sport climbing in the 5.12 to low 5.13 range. Steep tufa climbing a major plus. Prefer endurance to bouldery routes.

--Easy to find partners (especially those that speak English)

--Cheap, both to get there and to stay there (limited budget)

--Interesting non-climbing cultural experiences (but nothing too crazy)

I am leaning toward Turkey, since I am a bit put off by the sound of the massive scene and the humid weather in Thailand. basically, i'm more interested in a climbing-focused trip instead of a beach/party vacation.

Would Turkey (Anatalya) be chilly at this time of year, or just right?

Furthermore, which area has the better climbing, and enough variety for an extended stay?

Hope there are some folks out there who can give some good advice...where should I go?

Note that I'm also open to suggestions of other places as well. Perhaps, El Chorro, or Yangshou (too cold?). Have already decided against Mexico.

Thanks,
Jon

Bump

Sounds like you've already done your research on Thailand. It is some people's scene and others hate it. After living over there, I'm kind of in the middle. Only bitchy people go there and then complain about temps and humidity. It isn't that bad and really, but what else would you expect from a tropical country?

The scene however is pretty crazy... it can be fun but it can also be horrible. I don't even bother with Tonsai during high season... except to party. But there are A LOT of other options in SE Asia, making it a very worth while trip. The climbing is superb, Tonsai is not the best climbing in SE Asia or even Thailand. Email me if you are considering going.

El Chorro has excellent climbing, a ton of south facing walls and a very cool and relaxed crowd. I haven't been there in winter but I am hoping to spend a Jan/Feb there within the next few years. It will rain though... maybe someone else can give you better info on weather. I recommend it though, I love it there. Such good climbing, single and multi-pitch, long pitches, many different styles. Not as cheap as Thailand, but then Tonsai has become a bit of a rip off these days so it might be worth it to spend a bit more in Spain. And you don't really need a car since there is plenty of climbing w/in walking distance and many other climbers there who will have cars for the days you want to explore other areas. Keep in mind that you could also check out southern France and Morocco when you're over. Get in touch with Gary at the Olive Branch about a place to stay and tell him Ryan from London sent you.

PS Yangshuo and Turkey, while climbable, will be colder than Spain... maybe too cold? Haven't been there, but have researched a bit. Cold winters. Spain might have lows in the 40's in winter? Maybe colder, but so much of El Chorro is in the sun all day.

Ryan- thanks for the advice. I'm now really strongly considering El Chorro, and have done some more research into it. It looks like it has exactly what I'm looking for. Relatively inexpensive, easy to get to without a car, limestone, warm enough. It sounds like it will be easy to find partners there- this is correct? Lots of anemic, sun-starved Brits, I imagine. Plus, if I can finagle having March free, by that point it should be getting warm enough to go up to go up to Margalef or Siurana.

I think Spain is the way to go.

Like a lot of mainland venues in the Med El Chorro has mountains up behind and when that cold wind blows down the gorge you´ll freeze to death! It´s also a deserted dump at that time of year.

As a very general guide the wet season in the Med moves from west to east through the winter and February/ early March is the rainy period in Greece and Turkey.

Costa Blanca, Mallorca or Sicily are as good as you´ll get at that time of year.

Greece

So, I posted this thread 4 years ago. A lot has happened since then! The trip overseas that winter never quite happened for various reasons, and I ended up hanging around Bishop instead (still awesome).

4 years later, I am considering the same options. A summer of working heinous overtime has given me a lot of comp time to use, so I'm thinking about GTFO of Seattle winter for 4 weeks in February. So, again, looking for a overseas destination to get some winter sun.

My criteria are basically the same as listed in the original post. Reliable weather (sunny/warm, but perhaps not Thailand hot), steep/limestone/tufas, easy logistics, relatively inexpensive (other than the plane ticket...), etc. Possibly travelling solo on this one, so a place with a good climbing partner scene is a must. A place where going without rental car is easy/possible is a big plus too, for cost savings reasons (plus I'm rubbish at driving a manual, to my great embarassment).

El Chorro and Geyikbayiri/Antalaya are two places that are highest on the list. Anyone want to weigh in the pros/cons of these two places? Which has better climbing, a better scene, more reliable weather...?

Ryan Williams...care to weigh in a bit more on El Chorro in Feb? Is it reliably nice weather in February, or a "you might get lucky, you might get hosed" sort of situation?

Having been to Greece/Kalymnos the last 2 years in Feb, March and April, I expect that Anatalya being quite close has roughly similar weather patterns during the season. That time of year is hit or miss, some days wonderful, warm and even a need to seek shade, others stormy/rainy/windy. Very changeable. And when it gets rainy for a while, the cave/tufa routes will seep days-weeks later. I got enough climbing done (for me), but both years it was early season and I was recovering from injury and illness, and taking it easy, having as many or more rest days forced by weather as climbing days.

Antalya only averages in the 50s in February. Did you Google the weather?
holiday-weather.com/antalya… I was over in Turkey last February and it snowed. El Chorro is probably a better bet.

Brian wrote:Antalya only averages in the 50s in February. Did you Google the weather?

Looked at averages on Accuweather, although the data presentation on the site you linked to is better. Average high of 59 in Antalya sounds damn near perfect for climbing (maybe a tad warm...). This is a sport climbing trip, not a beach trip. The number of days of rain is of greater concern, especially given the potential for seeping rock. Average weather data is often useless of climbing weather anyway, given the climbing-specific issues with wind, seeping rock, etc. Hence asking for informed/experienced opinions.

Looks like Malaga is a few degrees warmer and gets about half as much precip as Antalya in Feb. How this translates to conditions at the crags, up in the mountains, is another question. Still, sounds like El Chorro may be a safer bet for weather. How's the climbing, culture, and overall experience compare?

JCM, did you decide on a spot? I'm also considering where to spend nov-feb 2016, with the same criteria as you. On the fence between El Potrero Chico or Thailand.

No decisions yet. Maybe Potrero for two weeks? Not sure though.

Man they are both good destinations, but if you like high deep water solo, Thailand is the place.

If any of you are considering Thailand the last half of January, shoot me a DM. I will be in Singapore till the 15th and looking to climb the following week+

Ill be in Cuba most of January, sounds like it fits your criteria. Maybe a bit warm

Geyik can be really awesome that time of year. If it rains, you can climb a lot of different areas still. Definitely not too cold most of the time, as most of the climbing faces due south.

Really easy to meet people at the josito camp. Its Turkey, too! Its super rad getting to experience that new culture.

I spent 3 months there last winter, so PM me if you're looking for more info.

I would recommend Geyikbairi. I was there until late November (I know, not your timeframe) and the folks we were working/staying with were just getting ready up for the 'real' climbing season later in winter.
Super easy to find partners and tons to climb. Long, technical face, overhanging enduro fests and 3D tufa routes all in one valley.
There is also Citibi which is very close and has amazing long new routes.

Tonsai is a madhouse, especially that time of year and it seems like you're more interested in climbing than drinking buckets of well vodka...
I can't comment on Spain since I've never been, but it sure looks good and you can get to Barcelona for cheap using Norwegian Air and routing through Oslo.

I was thinking El Potrero, but the possibility of an El Nino winter is making me reconsider...

Yangshuo, China was mentioned and I would recommend it. You don't get beach life (although you can swim in the river), but you also dont need to suffer all the weird political shit going on in both Thailand and Turkey. Also, I feel that Ton sai sort of lost its attraction. Its either dirty or (on Railey) overdeveloped and full of russians, chinese, etc tourists in huge concrete hotels.

Yangshuo is beautiful, has a great number if top-notch crags, cheap accomodation and food, easy access (get a bike, everything is near). The drawback is getting a visa. Not a huge problem but start the process in time!

Weather? Well, its not going to be too cold for climbing, although houses may lack insulation and heating and when temps drop to 10C, it gets chilly inside. It may rain, but the time you plan to go should be ok. Going later, say april, it gets more rainy. But as with every destination, each year is different.

Get there by flying in to Guangzhou (CAN), then catch the super-fast train, 2,5 hours.

By the way, any travelling in asia around chinese new year, including Yangshuo as well as Thailand, should take into consideration that the chinese these days have money and they travel. A lot. Book trains and hotels in advance!

Finally, if you are open to trad, Arapiles near Melbourne is paradise on earth, and especially at the time you want to travel. There is a fair amount of sports climbing, but mostly its trad. Easy to find partners but not much else.