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I have some noob questions. Webbing, anchors, etc.

Original Post
CVRIV · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2015 · Points: 0

So I ordered some gear. An ATC-guide with a BD Rocklock for it. I ordered 6 x BD screwgate biners, 135' of 11mm static PMI rope and a 20' length as well. I also ordered a 10.5mm dynamic rope 70m in length. I was told that anchoring could be complicated. I was going to anchor with the static rope but i noticed that climbers also anchor with webbing? First, is there any reason why I should not anchor with static rope? Which is better, static rope or webbing? I wanted to somehow use something to protect the anchor rope if it should run over an edge and saw that I could use tubular webbing is good for this? Is webbing all protection needed for a rope overhanging an edge? I know to make sure the rope isnt on a sharp edge etc. But for rope laying on rock, webbing is good enough? I was actually going to cut up a garden hose to use for when webbing wouldnt be good enough. I plan on getting some webbing regardless.

djh860 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2014 · Points: 110

Both are fine. Webbing may be lighter

CVRIV · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2015 · Points: 0

Holy hell, webbing is cheap. I get it now. 1" tubular webbing is good for 4000lbs and it's cheap. Ill definitely buy me some webbing and more biners too.

r m · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2015 · Points: 0

You have then 11mm static, use it for your anchors. It's fit for the purpose.

Webbing is nicer in that its lighter and easier to pack.

Static is nicer in that it's easier to unknot, and easier to inspect knots.

I suspect 11mm static might last longer, keep in mind when using webbing that the load bearing fibres are the ones being abraded when it gets fluffy. When a kernmantle gets fluffy, it's only the sheath fibres that are affected.

The later part of your post is taking about garden hoses, and webbing. Do you mean threading your rope through webbing? You could do that, but it's a pain in the ass.

To be honest in my regular TR setup everything in the anchor is redundant. I avoid sharp edges, keep an eye on the anchor and haven't needed to pad or protect anything just yet.
If one line does cut there's still the other one. But for it to cut, it'll probably need to slide along the edge a few times, so I try to rig to minimise that. If you're running two strands of 11mm static over the lip, that's a whole lot of strength (~60kN worth).

Each time you climb up to the anchors, have a quick look/inspection before you sit down in your harness.

Anonymous · · Unknown Hometown · Joined unknown · Points: 0

Webbing is not as good going over an edge because webbing will cut easier.

Zac St Jules · · New Hampshire · Joined Dec 2013 · Points: 1,188

The garden hose thing isn't necessary. If you really really need to put something over your anchor rope, old bike tube works well. but obviously, as you know, try hard to not need to do that.

Anonymous · · Unknown Hometown · Joined unknown · Points: 0
Jake Jones wrote: Conventional wisdom is the exact opposite. Tubular webbing is preferred going over edges because it will roll instead of just saw back and forth. Whether this is true or not, I cannot attest to.
I have heard that but I have also seen webbing take a ton of damage and seen it cut from going over an edge. I much prefer my anchor to have a protective cover than the part protecting the fall from touching the edge.

I have seen a testing video that does demonstrate how easy it can cut over an edge but here is the only link to testing I could find.

user.xmission.com/~tmoyer/t…

Quoting the end of the document... "For rock anchors, if there is any possibility
that an anchor could shift when it is loaded, webbing should not be used. If it is used on rock, edges should be well
padded."
BigFeet · · Texas · Joined May 2014 · Points: 385
CVRIV wrote: I was told that anchoring could be complicated.
I would first find someone who is competent to show you what, when, where, how, and why you are doing what you are doing. Buy some books... read them. Learn them. Love them.

Edited to answer some of your questions:

Both static rope and webbing have their places. In fact, at times I will use them in conjunction with each other. My preference is for using static rope for most applications, for I find that it can be easy to adjust, inspect, used to rappel on if need be, along with other uses. I carry a 30m section of 9mm static to use for top rope anchor building and I can make my anchor long to reach over an edge, or short if need be.

For anything multi-pitch, I would use something much shorter, and more "packable". 20' of 6mm or some Titan/Spectra/Dyneema cord.

If you are worried about abrasion issues you can pad the rope with your pack, shirt, towel, or whatnot. If you want to take the time to do this, you can use that garden hose or webbing as a sheath to cover the rope - P.I.T.A. at times though!

11mm may be a bit big for bringing up any multi-pitch route, but it will work fine for top rop anchors.
CVRIV · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2015 · Points: 0

Thanks for the replies. I'll probably buy some webbing anyways but yea, I will use my 11mm static rope. About the over the edge comments... nothing would really be going over and edge EDGE, meaning a sharp edge. But a rolling edge where rope of touching the ground, I thought that threading the climbing rope through the webbing, using the webbing as a sacrificial means of protecting the rope from fraying.

Of course I would seek someone with experience before climbing. I want to do some top roping near me soon and will be looking for someone of this site to go with me. I would feel better if someone with climbing time went with me. Plus I need a belayer.

Brian Pisani · · Duluth, Minnesota · Joined Jan 2014 · Points: 30

For protection over an edge I found a square of old carpet attached to the anchor with a friction hitch or a sling works pretty well. Just roll it up and put it on the outside of your pack, weighs next to nothing, and has lots of other uses.

CVRIV · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2015 · Points: 0
Brian Pisani wrote:For protection over an edge I found a square of old carpet attached to the anchor with a friction hitch or a sling works pretty well. Just roll it up and put it on the outside of your pack, weighs next to nothing, and has lots of other uses.
I read that people use carpet as well. I'll have to take that into consideration.
david doucette · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2012 · Points: 25

i recommend taking an anchoring class. the proper foundation will serve you many times over in your climbing future. i use both a static line and webbing when building anchors so it really depends on the situation. understanding the why behind something will benefit you greatly and allow you to rig top rope setups for anything you come across.

Man Rider · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2012 · Points: 100

A note on that carpet post...one of the biggest rules in anchor setup is no fabric on fabric and no metal on metal... the rope rubbing on carpet may actually produce more friction than just rubbing on rock. Just as you would not run your rope directly through webbing (run through carabiner, not webbing), you probably shouldn't run rope over carpet.

Buy Freedom of the Hills and take a class....as you can tell, a lot of "experience" doesn't produce correct concepts.

BigFeet · · Texas · Joined May 2014 · Points: 385

Mahjoe,

We do metal to metal in anchor building all the time (carabiner to bolt), as well as, fiber to fiber (rope to rope). This is where the what, why, how, when stuff comes in. It is always situationally looked at.

Carpet would be fine, if used.

There would not be enough friction generated to cause an issue because the rope is not moving across the carpet at speed for any period of time to have a melting of fibers that would cause the rope to fail.

This is a top rope anchor with a static rope or webbing being used. I would have to believe a lot of motion would have to be going on for this type of failure to occur - more than what would be generated from top rope climbing.

SRB25 · · Woodside, ca · Joined Nov 2014 · Points: 5

Maybe it's different these days...but who needs 155 ft of static and a 70m to start learning to climb outside. Cancel the static rope and spend 1/4 the money on webbing. Way cheaper, lighter and blah blab blah. Furthermore (and I learned in California) most places I ever top ropes didn't need heinously long anchors to avoid a hardly sharp edge. $0.02

CVRIV · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2015 · Points: 0
SRB25 wrote:Maybe it's different these days...but who needs 155 ft of static and a 70m to start learning to climb outside. Cancel the static rope and spend 1/4 the money on webbing. Way cheaper, lighter and blah blab blah. Furthermore (and I learned in California) most places I ever top ropes didn't need heinously long anchors to avoid a hardly sharp edge. $0.02
70 meters because i wanted 70 meters. I bought the static line because the guy i did my first climb with said to get it and he showed me why. Where we went climbing, the bolts were oddly placed. He literally had to hang over the edge to access the bolts. It was bad placement in the sense he had tovhang over the edge but good in that we didnt have to worry about ahything rubbing. Now jim hanging over the edge, he tied himself in using his static line and gear and even showed me how to make and use a prusik, so he wouldnt slide over the edge. Thats why i bought a static line. Also because i can use it to anchor with. He said there are times where the only place to anchor is feet and feet back from where you are climbing. Thats why i bought 135" of static line. I also plan on buying feet and feet of webbing as well so i can build backup anchors.
r m · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2015 · Points: 0

I'd suggest holding off on buying large amounts of webbing and trying to make it work with what you've got.

If you can't pull off your anchor with 6 biners and 155' of 11mm static, go somewhere else. Everybody else does (because almost no one takes in that much gear).

Slings are useful though, my normal "I'm going toproping" stuff to bring is 5 biners (at least one locking), 2x2.4m nylon slings, belay device and rope.

As a 'noob', pick places that are easy to setup TR anchors. Sometimes you don't know until you get there, but that's all part of the game. Many a day have been spent without even finding the climb.

The thing about more gear is, aside from being expensive, stuff gets complex. When stuff gets complex mistakes are harder to see.

Optimistic · · New Paltz · Joined Aug 2007 · Points: 450

I can name 2 incidents right now in which inexperienced leaders killed their climbing partners via failure of a toprope anchor. Picture having a conversation like that with your partner's family.

There's a lot to get right in setting a toprope anchor, and I'd ask you to consider that you don't have the experience to evaluate the experience of "someone with experience" as you put it. Please consider having a professional guide show you how to do it and get yourself off to a solid start.

mattm · · TX · Joined Jun 2006 · Points: 1,885
Mahjoe wrote:A note on that carpet post...one of the biggest rules in anchor setup is no fabric on fabric and no metal on metal... the rope rubbing on carpet may actually produce more friction than just rubbing on rock. Just as you would not run your rope directly through webbing (run through carabiner, not webbing), you probably shouldn't run rope over carpet. Buy Freedom of the Hills and take a class....as you can tell, a lot of "experience" doesn't produce correct concepts.
No. Your statement actually illustrates your point in that FOTH and a class obviously haven't produced correct concepts yet.

Carpet as edge protection is perfectly ok and pretty much SOP for many as cheap edge protection.
Ken Noyce · · Layton, UT · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 2,648
Mahjoe wrote:A note on that carpet post...one of the biggest rules in anchor setup is no fabric on fabric and no metal on metal... the rope rubbing on carpet may actually produce more friction than just rubbing on rock. Just as you would not run your rope directly through webbing (run through carabiner, not webbing), you probably shouldn't run rope over carpet. Buy Freedom of the Hills and take a class....as you can tell, a lot of "experience" doesn't produce correct concepts.
Wow, the level of ignorance in this post is astounding... As mattm mentioned, carpet is one of the most widely accepted edge padding materials used, also, what do you think caribiners and bolt hangers are made of? I'm pretty sure clipping a metal carabiner to a metal bolt hanger is the most common setup in anchor building.
Jim Titt · · Germany · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 490
Mahjoe wrote:A note on that carpet post...one of the biggest rules in anchor setup is no fabric on fabric and no metal on metal...
Hmm, not a rule I use, teach or would recommend to anyone, it appears you have misunderstood something or possibly a lot.
Canvas rope protectors are standard items, people like Yates, DMM, Blue Water and just about everybody else makes them. Synthetics can melt under pressure and movement which is a pain so either canvas or you can also go to Spectra laminate or aluminium/fiberglass ones.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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