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Rappel accident in the Gunks on 7/25

Original Post
Rob D · · Queens, NY · Joined May 2011 · Points: 30

A climber rappelling on Horseman (from the intermediate fixed anchor) rapped off the end of her line on saturday. She and her partner believed that both ends of the rope were on the ground when they started the rappel, but no knot was tied. There were a number of first responders on scene (including a doctor) and she was stabilized before being evacuated by the rangers. She was responsive but clearly in pain. It was a typical crowded uberfall but no one saw exactly where she fell from. guesses seem to be between 10-25 ft.

The rangers were quick to the scene and to get her to the waiting ambulance.

I was racking up to climb Retribution when I heard the awful thud of a body hitting the ground and her yell. Please please please tie knots in the end of your rope even if you're at the tope of pitch 1. I hear people say it all the time "I tie knots all the time, unless I'm just cleaning a single pitch" and this is a perfect example of why knots can save lives and prevent injuries.

keithconn · · LI, NY · Joined Jan 2015 · Points: 35

All the best. Reminder of why we should all do those stupid things that we put off.

All the best to the climber.

Gail Blauer · · Gardiner, NY · Joined Jul 2008 · Points: 1,051

I heard the sirens, I was hoping that it was not a climber.

Wishing a quick recovery to all involved.

Parker Kempf · · Bellingham, WA · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 210

better yet clip the ends to you, that way you don't throw a knotted rope and get it stuck, nor is it possible to rap off the end

"I hear people say it all the time "I tie knots all the time, unless I'm just cleaning a single pitch" and this is a perfect example of why knots can save lives and prevent injuries."

Stagg54 Taggart · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2006 · Points: 10
Rob D. wrote: I hear people say it all the time "I tie knots all the time, unless I'm just cleaning a single pitch" and this is a perfect example of why knots can save lives and prevent injuries.
I hear what you're saying and I agree that it is often a good idea to tie knots in the end of your ropes, but it's all situational. There are definitely situations where tying a knot in the end of the rope is a horrible idea. Red Rocks is one area that comes to mind.

Also I witnessed an incident just the other day where tying a knot in the end of the ropes caused a rather serious problem: Top of the First Flatiron, terrible thunderstorm rolls in. Thunder and lightning all around us, raining heavily, very windy and hailing. Group ahead of us threw their ropes with knots in the end. First guy (less experienced) raps down. He gets to the free-hanging part and a gust of wind lifts the rope way up over his head and it lands on a ledge and the knot snags under a boulder. No knot and he could have just pulled it, but because of the knot, it jammed and he was stuck. (could have prusicked but hadn't really practiced that and was concerned about the friction on a wet rope.) So in the end I rapped down next to him on my rope and simply lifted the rope from under the boulder and all was well, although he did hang there for a long time - long enough to worry about hypothermia. And you better bet that when I rapped I did not tie knots in the end of the rope. The middle was marked, the rap was less than 100 feet and the wind was blowing like crazy. Especially with their rope already stuck, tying knots would have been a horrible idea.

In that situation I'm not sure what the right answer is. Obviously when things are going crazy and you are in a little bit of a panic, adding an extra margin of safety (ie. the knots in the end of the rope) is good, but when the wind is blowing, it definitely causes problems. Perhaps saddle bags would have been the best way to go. I just kind of snaked my rope down along the rocks and that kept the wind from blowing it anywhere. Saddle bags would have been good, but would have meant spending more time on top of the lightning rod.

I just hate when people make blanket statements like "Always tie knots in the end of the rope".

No mantra should ever replace thinking and situational awareness. If you don't want to think - go sport climbing, or better yet bouldering.
Dankasaurus · · Lyons, CO · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 85

That was a sweet and thoughtful essay, that smoothly also stokes internet flames.

Rob D · · Queens, NY · Joined May 2011 · Points: 30

Jesus Christ I would rather a slightly flawed mantra be told to everyone than continue to see people fall to their death. Did anyone get struck by lightning climbing this year? And how many have died so far because of rappel lines without knots? If you're a good climber you know to evaluate your surroundings and decide whether untied knots are worth the risk, but even good climbers make mistakes and id rather their mistakes be that they get a rope stuck than fall off their rope.

Benjamin Chapman · · Small Town, USA · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 18,818

"If you don't want to think...go sport climbing or bouldering".....Stagg54

Really? I've been trad climbing since before sport climbing came about and that's an arrogant small minded comment. How about you go back and crawl under your rock??

rgold · · Poughkeepsie, NY · Joined Feb 2008 · Points: 526
Stagg54 wrote: In that situation I'm not sure what the right answer is...Saddle bags would have been good, but would have meant spending more time on top of the lightning rod...No mantra should ever replace thinking and situational awareness.
Agreed---knotted ends are often but not always a good idea, and high winds are a time when you have to think carefully about what could go wrong. A hypothermic person stuck on the rope in a lightning storm puts the entire party in a very bad way. If you hadn't been there, either the hanging climber would have had to prussik up or someone from the top would have had to prussik down, assuming the stuck rope was reachable from the rappel. I've seen ropes blow sideways and catch, which can create a really dangerous situation, much worse than them blowing straight up.

In the situation you described, it sounds as if it would have been a good idea to lower the first person down, using either a Munter hitch on the anchor a belay plate on the anchor with the brake strand redirected through a higher carabiner, or just a harness belay redirected through the anchor. See for example climbing.com/skill/lower-away/.

I think lowering the first person down is a better option than saddle-bagging, as saddle-bagged ropes sometime get all tangled up and then once again you've got a rappeller hung up in a storm with the rest of the party stranded at the anchor above. That said, saddle-bagging shouldn't take any longer than coiling the ropes to throw them. Each climber coils one of the rappel strands.

When the weather is good and you're just cragging, making a habit of knotting the ropes sure seems like a good idea.
Schalk · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2010 · Points: 15
rgold wrote:In the situation you described, it sounds as if it would have been a good idea to lower the first person down, using either a Munter hitch on the anchor a belay plate on the anchor with the brake strand redirected through a higher carabiner, or just a harness belay redirected through the anchor. See for example climbing.com/skill/lower-away/. I think lowering the first person down is a better option than saddle-bagging, as saddle-bagged ropes sometime get all tangled up and then once again you've got a rappeller hung up in a storm with the rest of the party stranded at the anchor above.
Just quoting this as it is such good advice and the world would be a better place if more people followed it.
Michael Brady · · Wenatchee, WA · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 1,316
Stagg54 wrote: If you don't want to think - go sport climbing, or better yet bouldering.
Yeah...because bouldering is totally safe.
David Coley · · UK · Joined Oct 2013 · Points: 70

I always tie knots. Even if the rap is 30ft. This is so I will automatically tie a knot the day it is needed on that 500ft rap.
In winds, the knots are clipped to me.
In high winds I don't throw the rope down, but take it with me.
In extreme winds I lower the first person.

Having said that, there is one exception to tying knots for me: when abseiling into the sea to escape.

JoeLars41 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2015 · Points: 60

Someone once told me that when he raps he places his back-up prusik above the rappel device, about half an arm length, girth hitched from the belay loop. It’s short enough that it doesn’t get away from him, and in the even that he loses the ends of the rope through the device, he’d have a prusik above him to prevent a fall.

Thoughts on this?

My feeling is that I would seriously hate to be dangling there on just a friction knot.

Michael Brady · · Wenatchee, WA · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 1,316
JoeLars41 wrote:Someone once told me that when he raps he places his back-up prusik above the rappel device, about half an arm length, girth hitched from the belay loop. It’s short enough that it doesn’t get away from him, and in the even that he loses the ends of the rope through the device, he’d have a prusik above him to prevent a fall. Thoughts on this? My feeling is that I would seriously hate to be dangling there on just a friction knot.
I can think of a few things I would rather do than be in the situation where that back up is used. The thought of that makes me think of the opening scene to Cliffhanger. I guess it is better than dying...immediately.
dahigdon · · phoenix, Az · Joined Jan 2015 · Points: 220

JoeLars, I'd take dangling on a friction knot over laying in a twisted heap of helplessness anyday. I doubt the prussik would catch everytime, but I always rap with the prussik above my ATC. I certainly tie knots as well (but we all make mistakes). You could test this theory just above the ground with a crashpad under you. I'd be curious to experiment with different distances between the prussik and ATC.. Don't forget the beer though.

Jon Po · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2013 · Points: 255

If you tie EDKs at the end of your rope they are less likely to get caught.

Drew Hayes · · Charlotte, NC · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 110
JoeLars41 wrote:Someone once told me that when he raps he places his back-up prusik above the rappel device, about half an arm length, girth hitched from the belay loop. It’s short enough that it doesn’t get away from him, and in the even that he loses the ends of the rope through the device, he’d have a prusik above him to prevent a fall. Thoughts on this? My feeling is that I would seriously hate to be dangling there on just a friction knot.
I remember reading an article where a climber set up various rappel backups and rapped off the end of his rope (no knots at the end). If I recall correctly, none of the backups could cinch fast enough to keep him from rapping off the end of his rope.
Craig Childre · · Lubbock, TX · Joined Aug 2006 · Points: 4,860

Knot your ropes people.

We all climb with partners. While I'm horrified to consider as much. Suppose you threw an unknotted rope that your partner then raps and falls to his or her death. Soon you discover that your deceased partner was a close relative of the area "Gorilla Man" or the "Badger" style of lawer who files suit against you for causing the incident.

So you should have a solid legally justifiable reason for not knotting the ends of the rope. Occasionally I will picture myself giving testimony about why I didn't, just to reinforce the impact of my decision.

edit: Also, to the fallen, get well soon, lets hope your injuries are short lived.

Kiri Namtvedt · · Minneapolis, MN · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 30

Clearly it's more common for people to fail to tie knots and then get in trouble than it is for people to have tied knots and then get in trouble (as in the windy storm scenario).

Just... get more in the habit of tying knots.

Luc-514 · · Montreal, QC · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 12,506

I know the area is full of gumbies but what I'm wondering is that no-one noticed what was happening before the climber reached the end of the ropes.
So many people looking up waiting their turn...
I always keep an eye out for mistakes people might do around me, in Canada we have an obligation to assist someone who gets injured (within abilities) so preventing others mistakes is beneficial and good karma.
I will never feel belittled if some stranger asks to check my setup, just for that one odd chance I might have been distracted.

Lets keep each other safe!

When I'm at the last rap, I often ask if both my ends are touching the ground to people nearby, it's helpful when you're not sure if a 70m might allow to skip an extra rap.

Ken Noyce · · Layton, UT · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 2,648
JoeLars41 wrote:Someone once told me that when he raps he places his back-up prusik above the rappel device, about half an arm length, girth hitched from the belay loop. It’s short enough that it doesn’t get away from him, and in the even that he loses the ends of the rope through the device, he’d have a prusik above him to prevent a fall. Thoughts on this? My feeling is that I would seriously hate to be dangling there on just a friction knot.
As was mentioned, it probably wouldn't be able to cinch up fast enough to catch, but even if it could, your immediate reaction to rapping off the end of a rope would be to grab the rope to keep you from falling, but the hand you'd be grabbing the rope with would be the hand that's tending the friction hitch which would just further prevent it from cinching on the rope.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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