Is there a standard term for putting your leg behind the rope?

John Byrnes wrote: Shirley someone (sic) has documented this and put it on the internet, no?

John, Just show them this video:

vimeo.com/130043344

John Byrnes wrote: In my experience "Back stepping" is whenever you put your pinkie/outside edge of your shoe on the foothold instead of some other part of your shoe (inside edge/point/heel/etc).

I've heard the word backstep used for both. Here's a link explaining that backstepping isn't just a climbing technique: climbingtechniques.org/clip…

Bill Kirby wrote: I've heard the word backstep used for both. Here's a link explaining that backstepping isn't just a climbing technique: climbingtechniques.org/clip…

great source, a blog written by two people who on their home page state, "We have been climbing and skiing together for more than two years now". Wow, they must be experts in everything climbing related.

A backstep is a move. Calling having the rope behind your leg a backstep will just cause confusion and could possibly be dangerous. If you are doing this, please stop.

kennoyce wrote: great source, a blog written by two people who on their home page state, "We have been climbing and skiing together for more than two years now". Wow, they must be experts in everything climbing related. A backstep is a move. Calling having the rope behind your leg a backstep will just cause confusion and could possibly be dangerous. If you are doing this, please stop.

Haha.. You're being a dick please stop. I was looking for written evidence that the word backstep is being used to describe something other than movement. I should've known that the link would be put under a microscope.

Anyways those experts aren't only people calling out the word backstep when see someone's leg behind the rope so get used to it. I wanna say gyms are teaching people the term backstep in learn to lead courses too. Maybe in your next post you could get all high and mighty about gyms

sportrock.com/about/agreement/

If you scroll down to lead belaying rules Sport Rock asks that a leader not z clip, back clip or backstep.

Damn gyms confusing everyone..

I'm wondering if calling the rope behind the leg is a regional thing, possibly born of a gym climbing nature. Maybe just out of confusion as someone backstepped and got the rope behind their leg whilst doing so, and someone mistook the meaning behind the phrase. That's how naming something gets started right?

I've always known backstepping to be a move where the outside edge of the shoe is used. "Watch the rope!" seems long enough not to be confused with another word or phrase. It's not as specific as "The rope is behind you leg or foot in such a way that if you fall from the position you're in you'll get flipped over, slam head first into the wall, and then I'm going to need to use the Partner Finder forum again!" But, it makes the leader look at the rope and there aren't very many reasons to do that between clipping. When I hear it, I immediately look down at my legs to see what's wrong, so it works just fine for me.

From Climbing.com

...
Backstep n, v : To press your shoe’s external edge onto a foothold and drop the knee lightly, thus bringing the sole’s bottom-outside in contact with the rock and your hip in; often opposed against your other foot’s big toe, off which you resolutely push. Unlike a Lolotte (drop knee), the less aggressive backstep typically exploits footholds below knee level.

• Synonym: Egyptian

...

Bill Kirby wrote: Haha.. You're being a dick please stop. I was looking for written evidence that the word backstep is being used to describe something other than movement. I should've known that the link would be put under a microscope. Anyways those experts aren't only people calling out the word backstep when see someone's leg behind the rope so get used to it. I wanna say gyms are teaching people the term backstep in learn to lead courses too. Maybe in your next post you could get all high and mighty about gyms

As long as I'm not being a jerk it's okay right?

Just because there is written evidence that a term is being used incorrectly by noobs and gyms doesn't make it a correct use of the term.

As I said in my previous post, using this term incorrectly could be dangerous. If any climber I know heard someone yell "backstep" or "backstepping" while they were climbing they would most likely think that someone was trying to give them beta or they would just be confused. If you are using this term incorrectly, please stop doing it since backstepping already has a well known definition in climbing vocabulary, and having your leg behind the rope isn't it.

kennoyce wrote: As long as I'm not being a jerk it's okay right? Just because there is written evidence that a term is being used incorrectly by noobs and gyms doesn't make it a correct use of the term. As I said in my previous post, using this term incorrectly could be dangerous. If any climber I know heard someone yell "backstep" or "backstepping" while they were climbing they would most likely think that someone was trying to give them beta or they would just be confused. If you are using this term incorrectly, please stop doing it since backstepping already has a well known definition in climbing vocabulary, and having your leg behind the rope isn't it.

Hell ya! I say go past jerk to dick.. Definitely

The OP asked if there was a term using for what you do when you wanna fall and end up upside. I yell the same thing you do when see the rope behind a leaders leg. I don't want to be misunderstood as saying back clipping. I never typed there was only one definition.

kennoyce wrote: John, Just show them this video

: vimeo.com/130043344

This is a nice video. I took a fall like this once (without the awful belaying, luckily). Before this happened to me, I understood that having the rope obviously running over the back of your leg was a bad thing, but I hadn't realized that sometimes when you have a leg on either side of the rope, you still might be in a bad position because your leg will hook the rope as you fall.

I usually yell "watch your leg" or "leg". I've only heard it called backstepping once, from a relatively new climber from out of town.

At my gym, I was taught it as being 'in conflict' with the rope. ex: "If you step that way, it will put your foot is in conflict with the rope." No idea where it came from, but it makes sense to me and is the terminology I use in explaining it. When I'm belaying, I'll always jsut yell "watch your leg" or something.

JSH wrote:...Rope entanglements can happen even without a step involved. It is a situation, not an action.

With this, your head, arm, or other body parts can also be 'in conflict' with the rope. As JSH mentioned, this is often true - I've often have experienced the situation where you are in a safe stance, you reach to make your next clip, and once clipped the rope angle has changed and your foot is now 'in conflict' with the rope.

There is even the circumstance where before you clip, if you move from your safe foot stance to what will become a safe foot placement after the clip, then your will put yourself in conflict before you make the clip instead (hope that makes sense... not sure the best way to explain that).

I encountered my first arm/rope conflict situation a few eeks ago, which I have never been warned about or even realized could happen until I saw it. Climbing up a chimney with their back on one side, and both feet on the other, my climber had their right arm against one side of the chimney, and reached down for the rope with their left, then clipped the next bolt on the wall above their right arm, essentially putting their arm between the rope and the wall. Calling 'take' just after this, pulling in the slack cause the ropes to trap the climbers arm, and they hung there for a few seconds before wiggling it out and falling a foot or two until caught by the rope - and got a little rope burn as well...

In leading the climb next, I almost made the exact same clip the exact same way - it was difficult to understand that it was a dangerous move and had I not seen my partner do exactly that the first time, I wouldn't have readjusted to a different less-comfortable but safer clipping position. Odd......

I'm a bit surprised no one else has chimed in with "tripping." This may be another regional thing, but I far prefer it to "back stepping" as it has no additional meaning. The climber is "tripping" on the rope.

Plus, it has some nice consonance when teaching lead climbing: "avoid back clipping, z-clipping, and tripping."

If ten noobs are in the noobie central gym and one noob calls this backsteping, is he still wrong?

At that moment he is correct. Until his noobneressence wears off. And he realizes there was no steping back to create this situation and simultaneously realizes climbers have been using this term to mean something else for eons.

I can think of at least one additional meaning for tripping. Although if the leader is tripping, having the rope behind their leg may not be the worst of your problems

Hamilton Kibbe wrote:I can think of at least one additional meaning for tripping. Although if the leader is tripping, having the rope behind their leg may not be the worst of your problems

Ha. On the other hand, this alternate definition of "tripping" is not exclusive to climbing. Certainly been done before by climbers, but not exclusively.

kennoyce wrote: John, Just show them this video: vimeo.com/130043344

Yeah, as suggested above by Fiona, two things went wrong on this fall. Yes, rope behind the leg was the obvious error by the leader. The belay certainly needs critique - it was terrible, a somewhat typical "I must stop the fall as soon as possible" reaction. A soft catch and this guy barely impacts the wall. Watch the belayer carefully at moment of the lead fall. He lowers his butt and drops down - ouch - rock hard catch. A hop / jump upwards by the belayer as the leader is airborne and the leader has a nice soft catch and avoids the visit to the hospital and cutting his trip short to beautiful Kalymnos.

Scary. Climb ohn and climb safely. Wally

"Watch the rope" - nothing to do with back step.

You can back step with out any rope involved it all. You can get the rope behind your leg without any back step involved it all. Little to do with each other.

'Tripping' rhymes with 'Clipping', which if at a crowded crag could be getting yelled all the time. The leader could simply assume they heard another leader yell 'Clipping' and the rope entanglement could go unnoticed. But if it works for you, go with it.

Jake Jones wrote: This is when you make tea behind you.

Time to get me some reading glasses.