Rope end biner distinction for alpine draws?

Hey everyone,

So I'm building up my trad rack to lead, and I've been building alpine draws using BD neutrino rack-packs since they're cheap when you buy that many and decently light. I realized, however, that they are multi-colored, making it difficult to create a color-coding system for rope end vs pro. It then occurred to me that I'm not exactly clipping the other end into a metal bolt...often, it'll just be a sling (like on a cam), or at worst, a metal wire. Do you still make sure to maintain the distinction between rope end/protection end biners with alpine draws, and if so, what do you guys use/recommend for rope end biners?

I keep both the rope and bolt ends distinct on my alpine draws just as I do for my quickdraws.

The reason for the distinction in my case is to keep myself from picking up a habit that would carry over to sport climbs. Sometimes plans change and I may use alpine draws on a sport climb. I also may have to scavenge one of the carabiners for another purpose during a climb.

If climbing with a partner and mixing gear you should make sure you know what orientation they are using.

I use a dark color (black Metolius Bravo) for the bolt end and a light color (gun metal DMM Alpha) for the rope.

The bolt end, I'm not too worried on what type/brand, but the rope end I look for a clean no hook nose and will be something that I can handle and manipulate with my hands for easy clipping.

Quickly distinguishing what end is what is the key. Everything else is relative to your preference, and pretty much any combination will work for the intended purpose.

Ted Pinson wrote:Hey everyone, So I'm building up my trad rack to lead, and I've been building alpine draws using BD neutrino rack-packs since they're cheap when you buy that many and decently light. I realized, however, that they are multi-colored, making it difficult to create a color-coding system for rope end vs pro. It then occurred to me that I'm not exactly clipping the other end into a metal bolt...often, it'll just be a sling (like on a cam), or at worst, a metal wire. Do you still make sure to maintain the distinction between rope end/protection end biners with alpine draws, and if so, what do you guys use/recommend for rope end biners?

no, not even for bolts. Just check your biners occasionally and sand em down if they happen to get burrs. It only matters for my qds where I'll be regularly whipping on them

I don't keep them separate, I just check them regularly for damage. If you'd like to though, and you like the neutrinos, you can buy them all in one color if you want to. The "rack pack" is specifically meant to give you multi-colors to use as racking biners for your cams and comes in colors that match the BD camalots.

Ah, that explains why they match so well for that. Yeah, I used the biners that matched my cams for them and the rest became alpines...dark/light is a great idea! I think I will do something, as I occasionally bring alpines for sport climbs if the route wanders a lot or has roofs.

It won't really help with your all neutrino draws...but I like to keep things separate simply by using wire gates entirely on the rope end of my draws, sport or extendos.

redlude97 wrote: no, not even for bolts. Just check your biners occasionally and sand em down if they happen to get burrs.

This.

I use a set of quickdraws, and a set of alpine draws. I normally combine the sets together for a climb so I have 2 lengths for the alpine, and another really short one with the quickdraw.

Just make sure you inspect your quick draws and only take ones that are good. Alpine draws should never matter because you shouldn't be clipping them to a bolt, part of the reason i take normal quickdraws.

johnthethird wrote:It won't really help with your all neutrino draws...but I like to keep things separate simply by using wire gates entirely on the rope end of my draws, sport or extendos.

I arrange all the wire gates for the gear end of the draw, but that is just my preference, if a biner is not good any where it is needed it doesn't belong on your rack.

ViperScale wrote:Alpine draws should never matter because you shouldn't be clipping them to a bolt, part of the reason i take normal quickdraws.

huh?

I really don't see the point.

On a sport quick draw, there are many aspects including the stiff and flexible end and the curved gate vs the straight gate. These subtle difference can make 1/2 second difference in clipping when sport climbing. This can make a difference.

Trad climbing is different. The clipping time is generally negligible compared placement selection, the placement and the testing. It really doesn't matter. Having a symmetrical alpine draw just makes things simpler. Get a light carabiner with a large enough opening for you needs. A sling 60-90cm is ideal.

Overall though it really doesn't matter. Stick a couple random carabiners on a sling and it will do the job pretty damn well.

ViperScale wrote:Alpine draws should never matter because you shouldn't be clipping them to a bolt, part of the reason i take normal quickdraws.

It's not uncommon to clip bolts and pitons on multipitch or alpine routes, but you're also probably not taking repeated whippers on them. Personally I'd rather bring a full set of alpine draws because they are more versatile than a mix of alpine and quickdraws. I can also think of numerous times on a roadtrip (or even just a single day of climbing) that plans changed slightly and we ended up going sport climbing with mostly alpine draws. There are also times when you want something longer than a standard quickdraw on a particular bolt.

It may be stating the obvious but, burrs from falling on bolts is only an issue if you climb and fall on sport regularly. Personally most of my climbing is trad and with trad style. Sure some climbs might have a bunch of bolts but taking whippers is a rare exception. Sure I climb and fall on sport too, but it isn't super regular.

The only reason why anybody should worry is if they are actually burring up their biners. Then address the issue. Not before.

I just use a larger biner for the rope end. Hotwire on the rope end, trango superfly wire gate on the gear end. I don't worry about bolts too much, my alpine draws don't see much action on bolts. I just like the bigger biner for clipping, and its easy to tell them apart

I agree with the sentiment that it probably doesn't matter too much for an alpine draw since you generally don't clip too many bolts with them, and probably whip on them while clipped to bolts even less. However, if you do want to keep them separate you could get an oz rackpack and use them for the gear end. I like doing it this way because the hoodwire makes it easier to get the draws off my harness since the notch of the neutrino sometimes kind of catches on the gear loops of one of my harnesses. Obviously not that big of a deal, but I like doing it that way.

Greg Petliski wrote: I disagree. Preventative measures always beat corrective ones. I dont see why someone concerned with the longevity of their gear is a bad thing.

+1. I make a distinction between pro side and rope side because I use both my quickdraws and alpine draws for both sport and trade because I don't own enough quickdraws for many sport routes and i don't really want to buy more because they are less versatile.

if you like the neutrinos and want to continue using them for the draws, i would suggest using the neutrinos for the rope end and a silver colored biner for pro/bolt end. i use silver biners for my bolt side because it is easy to remember for people i regularly climb with. just remember silver to silver.