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Confronting litterers at Rumney

Bill Kirby · · Keene New York · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 480

Mathias, yea right!! Maryland? Criminals are the only ones who carry in this state.

When you're in the woods a knife can be life or death. I was involved in a 3 on 3 knife fight at popular swim hole in Baltimore. The cops were too late. People went to the hospital and all over nothing. Even though I got through that unharmed I still have a temper. I'm being honest so what else can I say? I'm some badass who's never lost a fight. All I'm saying is if you walked over to my group, told my friend you watched her pee and demanded she pick up her trash. Chances are I'm trying to fuck you up. Is it right? No but I'm not perfect.

J. Albers · · Colorado · Joined Jul 2008 · Points: 1,926
Bill Kirby wrote: J. If you watched any female I know pee and I'm there when you tell her hey I saw that prepare. Black eye? I would have to size you up first. May be just a wet willy.
Yeah Kirby, wet willy would be more my size...sh*t, if you sized me up you might just think that a cute pat on the head would suffice because I am as they say, big in Japan.
Dan Africk · · Brooklyn, New York · Joined May 2014 · Points: 275

Yikes Bill.. Might want to lay off the testosterone and anabolic steroids, brah.

Seriously I know there are still some old-fashioned and dimwitted women who are impressed by the whole macho caveman routine, but most intelligent women, like intelligent men, see at as the childish insecure bullshit that it is.. Maybe next time you want to impress your lady, just crush a beer can on your forehead instead? At least that is less likely to your ass arrested and/or ass kicked by half a dozen more civilized climbers who won't tolerate an overgrown man-child who gets off on being a bully..

Dan Africk · · Brooklyn, New York · Joined May 2014 · Points: 275

Just to add Bill, if I saw someone confronting an inconsiderate / ignorant person who was littering (assuming I didn't confront them first myself), and then I see some oaf like you come over and accuse them of being a perv just as an excuse to start a fight, I would have their back. And most likely, my friends would be nearby and have my back.

I'm not the sort to look for a fight, but I cannot abide bullies or assholes. And it may be a weakness of mine, but I don't have the good sense to avoid confrontations with people much bigger than me.. Maybe you think you could take on two or more people, and you might do some damage, but any injury you cause I would make sure is reciprocated twofold..

Most climbers are good and decent people, and I'd like to think that as a whole we would not tolerate the kind of behavior you describe. I know you're probably exaggerating / boasting, but I hope you think about that if you ever consider following your 'temper'..

daniel hackett · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2012 · Points: 0

Yup, I got your back Dan Africk

caesar.salad · · earth · Joined Dec 2012 · Points: 75
wonderwoman wrote:I was once at the base of Cannon on a day where it was cold & there was no foliage to hide behind. I kept squatting to pee and hearing someone wolf whistle at me. I would then move, and kept hearing whistling. Finally I realized that it was coming from a climb above me. Rather than having the courtesy to look away, they chose to harass me. Nice. No, I did not leave TP. It took me a long time to pee, though.
People can be jerks.
Bill Kirby · · Keene New York · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 480
Dan Africk wrote:Just to add Bill, if I saw someone confronting an inconsiderate / ignorant person who was littering (assuming I didn't confront them first myself), and then I see some oaf like you come over and accuse them of being a perv just as an excuse to start a fight, I would have their back. And most likely, my friends would be nearby and have my back. I'm not the sort to look for a fight, but I cannot abide bullies or assholes. And it may be a weakness of mine, but I don't have the good sense to avoid confrontations with people much bigger than me.. Maybe you think you could take on two or more people, and you might do some damage, but any injury you cause I would make sure is reciprocated twofold.. Most climbers are good and decent people, and I'd like to think that as a whole we would not tolerate the kind of behavior you describe. I know you're probably exaggerating / boasting, but I hope you think about that if you ever consider following your 'temper'..
Haha.. Don't hurt me with your keyboard I'm sorry.
Bill Kirby · · Keene New York · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 480
Greg Petliski wrote: If you acknowledge it isnt right, why woudnt you then modify your behavior?
Haven't you ever had road rage only to think "wow that was stupid!" afterwards. That's what I think would happen in this situation. I'm bullying or an asshole.. I'm not thinking just reacting.

Who knows maybe I wouldn't even open my mouth. evidently I'm such a liar..
caesar.salad · · earth · Joined Dec 2012 · Points: 75
powhound84 wrote: Cmon now, this thread is already in a nose dive into controversial nonsense. Do you really have to bring him into this? :) JK
It really was a quick turn for the worse. I am impressed.
Steven Groetken · · Durango, CO · Joined Sep 2012 · Points: 390
Bill Kirby wrote: Yes I would sit on you. Every fight I've lost has been a small guy that's too fast to box with. So yea that fights going to the ground.
Unless that little guy has even a rudimentary knowledge of BJJ. My brother is a 350 lb correctional officer and I'm a scrawny 170 lb sales manager. He got really drunk and kept messing with me and it turned into a fight. Took all of 30 seconds before he was passed out in a triangle choke. Fighting for emotion is stupid and I'm as guilty as him. Moral of the story, 1. don't be a dick, 2. size matters in the bedroom, not necessarily on the street (crag) 3. you cannot win a fight as an adult 4. when people do dumb shit, they usually don't realize they're doing dumb shit, 5. in the case of number 4, refer to number 1.
caesar.salad · · earth · Joined Dec 2012 · Points: 75
Steven Groetken wrote: 3. you cannot win a fight as an adult
Wisdom.
Steven Groetken · · Durango, CO · Joined Sep 2012 · Points: 390

^ even if you win physically, you usually end up in legal trouble, or at the very least, look like an immature jackass.

Nick Goldsmith · · Pomfret VT · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 440

So true! if you win you look like a jerk. If you lose your all beat up and you look like a jerk. then there is the very real possibility that one guy falls down and hits his head on the curb and ends up dead or worse while the other guy gets to go to jail..

Kevin Heckeler · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 1,616
Nick Goldsmith wrote:PS this may have been from a different thread but i will save time and put it here. no it's not OK to TR through biners at lowering stations. use your own gear. the biners are only there for you to lower off if you are the last person climbing the route. Of course I ocasionally TR through the chains but I can do that because they are My chains;)
[from another thread, not sure why it was posted there and not here]

My understanding of anchor building strategies is that a rap anchor will be composed of closed system gear (only bolts, chains, loops, those cheap steel close-shut loop things you can get at home depot). These pieces of gear are not expected to be replaced very often, typically because they can't be easily replaced. These situations I ALWAYS use my own gear for an anchor.

Building permanent anchors and leaving biners, or even quick close style anchors (which I sometimes, but not always, use my own gear) suggests that this is a top rope area or sport climb, and they're there for easy replacement later and/or climber convenience. [Otherwise they would have made an anchor with closed system chains/loops, or just have the plain bolts there.] In these situations it's climber's discretion, either you know the area and know the intent of the permanent gear left at the anchor, ask a nearby climber, or just build something with your own. As I explained, leaving this type of gear as the anchor is a hint that it's there to be used. I always inspect it though as these stations tend to get tired pretty quick, and the biners worn out within a few years. Although not a direct example, Rumney has hanging draws on some climbs. Are you expected to unclip each one and use your own? Then reclip them later when you're cleaning the route? Just an example of concluding the intended use from the gear being left/provided.

Let's put it this way - in most places in the NE and out West I've climbed that had biners or quick close anchors, in almost every example it was local ethic to use them for TR'ing. As told in a few cases when I asked - "That's what they're there for". One example I can think where there's some locking biners used for rapelling - Crane Mt. There's good rope and biner anchors on some of the stronger trees there. While you *could* TR on them, it doesn't make any sense since you can just slap your own lockers on there and save the existing ones some undue wear.

That's where climber discretion comes in. Make an intelligent assessment off the situation. It's just not a cut/dry thing, that's all.
Bill Kirby · · Keene New York · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 480
powhound84 wrote:Damn Bill, you got a bunch of armchair bad asses teaming up on you. However, in my experience, 2/3 of the guys who "have someones back" have never actually been in a real fight and seem to disappear when the fists start flying. Due to that, I still have my money on you. Assuming, of course, you aren't up against someone like myself and the dudes you have lost to. At a lean 155 with fighting experience, I can usually land 4-5 punches before the other guy knows what happened. Might be entertaining if we ever threw down. What happens first; I land a clean one that stuns you enough to open you up to the knockout hit or I slip up and let you get ahold of me, after which you drag me to the ground and smash my head in? On second thought, lets avoid that and get drunk instead! Everybody love everybody!
I like your style...
Matt Wilson · · Vermont, USA · Joined May 2010 · Points: 316
caesar.salad wrote:"its biodegradable"
So is nuclear waste, but I wouldn't want that laying around my climbing area.
M Sprague · · New England · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 5,090
Kevin Heckeler wrote: [from another thread, not sure why it was posted there and not here] My understanding of anchor building strategies is that a rap anchor will be composed of closed system gear (only bolts, chains, loops, those cheap steel close-shut loop things you can get at home depot). These pieces of gear are not expected to be replaced very often, typically because they can't be easily replaced. These situations I ALWAYS use my own gear for an anchor. Building permanent anchors and leaving biners, or even quick close style anchors (which I sometimes, but not always, use my own gear) suggests that this is a top rope area or sport climb, and they're there for easy replacement later and/or climber convenience. [Otherwise they would have made an anchor with closed system chains/loops, or just have the plain bolts there.] In these situations it's climber's discretion, either you know the area and know the intent of the permanent gear left at the anchor, ask a nearby climber, or just build something with your own. As I explained, leaving this type of gear as the anchor is a hint that it's there to be used. I always inspect it though as these stations tend to get tired pretty quick, and the biners worn out within a few years. Although not a direct example, Rumney has hanging draws on some climbs. Are you expected to unclip each one and use your own? Then reclip them later when you're cleaning the route? Just an example of concluding the intended use from the gear being left/provided. Let's put it this way - in most places in the NE and out West I've climbed that had biners or quick close anchors, in almost every example it was local ethic to use them for TR'ing. As told in a few cases when I asked - "That's what they're there for". One example I can think where there's some locking biners used for rapelling - Crane Mt. There's good rope and biner anchors on some of the stronger trees there. While you *could* TR on them, it doesn't make any sense since you can just slap your own lockers on there and save the existing ones some undue wear. That's where climber discretion comes in. Make an intelligent assessment off the situation. It's just not a cut/dry thing, that's all.
I'm not sure if that was a quote or your words (or what the point of the post being here is unless it was trolling satire), but as one who has placed many of the anchors at Rumney, the above is pretty daft. Go ahead and lower off if you are the last person in the group (as intended), but don't TR directly through the anchors. Fixed or project draws are another matter.
Kevin Heckeler · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 1,616
M Sprague wrote:Go ahead and lower off if you are the last person in the group (as intended), but don't TR directly through the anchors. Fixed or project draws are another matter.
"As intended" though seems to vary from crag to crag. [my post was specifically discussing anchors with biners or quick close style bolts]
Kevin Heckeler · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 1,616
Greg Petliski wrote: And here I am thinking the first rule of Mountain Project is you dont talk about Mountain Project..
caesar.salad was just trying to destroy something beautiful.
Daryl Allan · · Sierra Vista, AZ · Joined Sep 2006 · Points: 1,040

no shortage of wtfness in this thread

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Northeastern States
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