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Jody Jacobs · · NE, GA · Joined Jul 2008 · Points: 210

"We do NOT need to make the gym generation feel like climbing outside is as safe as the gym. "

Ain't that the truth !

BirminghamBen · · Birmingham, AL · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 1,620

Jeff has some routes round here that I consider lifetime test pieces for later.
I look forward to running out some arêtes.

Wes...
"Bro."
I am trying to attend the YB trail day Saturday, as well as the meeting Friday.
Join me.
Come see for yourself.
Some things are best left seen rather than read/heard.
Bring your guide book and a pencil.

BirminghamBen · · Birmingham, AL · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 1,620

P.S.
^ RadDawg...
Has been installing lines in the south for thirty years.
A YB original and good friend of mine.
Don't mistake a metered reply for lack of perspective.

Plemmons got anything to say??

saxfiend · · Decatur, GA · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 4,221
BHMBen wrote:RadDawg... Has been installing lines in the south for thirty years.
. . . and if memory serves me well, he has first-hand knowledge of what it's like to have one of your FAs chopped. Maybe Jody can fill in the details.

JL
taipan jam · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2015 · Points: 30
youtube.com/watch?v=qeQUIYz…

So chop bolts on Proper Soul right?

They are right next to protectable cracks...

I seen it with my own eyes...

+++++++++

Michael, my preference for old nut tool was a modified long dong~ but I guess I needed to just dismantle a closet...good stuff

++++++++++++++++

Can anyone answer about Predator? Have they added bolts in the run? It appears no from MP, but I'd like to have "first hand" beta.

it appears no one here is climbing out there, just making lots of assertions...

________________
Maybe I should make my mea culpas early, nothing like :"hard trad:" to explain it.

youtube.com/watch?v=qeQUIYz…
Paul Barnes · · Gainesville, Georgia · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 30
Again...

Did you miss this?...or are you just ignoring it?

I'd like to hear someone attempt to justify it. Come on now....go...
wwes · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2015 · Points: 0

Taipan, I've never climbed Predator, but I have belayed a friend on it. I haven't been to Castle Rock much and I don't know the history of the route, but it didn't seem dangerously run out and my friend didn't seem to have a problem with it. I think your suspicion that nobody here is actually climbing out there and just making a lot of assertions is pretty much spot on. I'm pretty sure Paul and Ben have never been on it. It's too dumbed down for them.

Paul, nobody missed it, it's pretty much the only thing you've said. Nobody's justifying it either. Mostly because we've never climbed the damn route. I've never climbed it. You've never climbed it. I think the only person that has climbed it over these 15 pages of internet posts had this to say:

“That picture of Greg Kottcamp on the Castle Rock flyer was not an SCC flyer. Further - have you done the route he is on [and he bolted it long before the SCC was leasing Castle]? Sure it could be done on gear [as with most every sandstone route in the SE] but the rock is pretty chossy down low and is not a top to bottom splitter as best I can recall. Greg is the last person I would call a sport climbing poser having climbed the sketchiest and scariest 13s on gear that I have ever seen.”

So the picture you keep waving around looks like a bolt next to a gear placement and this guy says the route could be done on gear. Point for Paul I guess, although I gotta say I respect Greg Kottcamp's judgment over whatever you've deduced from this single photograph by a damn sight. But nobody's justifying anything. Maybe this is a terrible atrocity. I personally can't judge as well as you can without actually seeing the route for myself, but let's say you're 100% right. It's just that even if this is a perfect splitter bolted by a gym gumby, it's still a far cry from this ONE route at Castle Rock you have a picture of and have never climbed and ONE retro bolt at Yellow Bluff that you guys can name (have you climbed that one?) to you guys publicly accusing the SCC of funding and advocating for retro bolting/grid bolting/rap bolting everything in the South. Surely with the “bolt the world” mindset so prevalent today you guys can come up with a couple more examples of how Yellow Bluff and Castle Rock are being destroyed. I've repeatedly pleaded for you to do so.

Ben, I don't have a guidebook and I may never go to Yellow Bluff. I'm simply asking you to clearly and publicly explain to us the accusations you've so loudly and publicly made. At the last meeting you estimated that 50% of the bolted lines at Yellow Bluff are retro bolts. That would mean there are well over 20 of them. It shouldn't be so difficult for you to go ahead and name a few so that we can all discuss them here. This is the closest you've come over all these posts and meetings:

BHMBen wrote: Tilt-a-Whirl (5.10c/d) was retrobolted I believe early on during the effort by local climbers to install anchors. Very disappointed to see that. Bernard Wolfe established that route back in the 80s. There is another that he put up that has no name.....and I think is just on the property boundary of the cliff....also retro'd....I presume the same time. I haven't been there in awhile....but there's more. Comments?
That's the vaguest shit I've ever heard. I've asked you multiple questions and you either will not or can not answer a single one of them. Talk about dancing around the issue. 15 pages of Mountain Project posts, 2 emergency SCC meetings, and 1 named retro bolt. What a joke.

After you've finally made your big reveal this weekend, could you perhaps do your best to express the revelations in words so that all of us plebeians here can follow along? You'll have to dumb it down real good for us, but if you start every sentence on a new line and use really small words, even I might be able to understand. Thanks bro.
Paul Barnes · · Gainesville, Georgia · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 30

Get it right...I'm not blaming the SCC. I've pretty much made my peace with the SCC. This discussion was started to see where errbody stands on some things. You're butthurt about the stance I've taken, you don't particularly care for me for me personally...oh well...that's on you.

And yes...I've pulled several pics from the web to demonstrate some things that have gone on down here that I think are egregious, and asked for input. I have neither the time nor desire to travel the SE in an effort to find every example and photograph it just to please you while you stick your head in the sand and pretend they don't exist. They do...and I think you know it too. You're a journeyman SE climber, and you can't be so naive as to think that they do not.

Sam England · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 410

Wes,

Your sentiments are shared by many. In the previous thread, I tried to logically explain YB's recent history and development as well as find the specific routes they had issue with. It was never addressed then and likely never will be. For me, I'm not even going to engage with it until specific, actionable issues are presented.

wwes wrote:Ben, I don't have a guidebook and I may never go to Yellow Bluff. I'm simply asking you to clearly and publicly explain to us the accusations you've so loudly and publicly made. At the last meeting you estimated that 50% of the bolted lines at Yellow Bluff are retro bolts. That would mean there are well over 20 of them. It shouldn't be so difficult for you to go ahead and name a few so that we can all discuss them here. This is the closest you've come over all these posts and meetings: That's the vaguest shit I've ever heard. I've asked you multiple questions and you either will not or can not answer a single one of them. Talk about dancing around the issue. 15 pages of Mountain Project posts, 2 emergency SCC meetings, and 1 named retro bolt. What a joke.
This assertion is spot on. I've even offered to chop any routes I put in that were retrobolts. No one has come forward to me, or any other local developer, EVER. Also, for the sake of clarity, only 2 bolts on tilt-a-whirl lie over the original gear line. Both the start and finish of the route is unique from the original line. I'm not saying this excuses anything but just wanted to make it clear that this whole thing has only been over 2 bolts.
BirminghamBen · · Birmingham, AL · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 1,620

Wes...
Why you mad, bro?
Come to think of it, you looked mad in ATL, too...

The issue with Yellow Bluff is a legit one, but let's not lose sight of some other things that have been tabled.
More on that below.

Yellow Bluff, in my opinion and that of others, has been overly bolted, nevermind who is responsible, and has not been managed well.
My point on this matter, having concern for the overall degradation of the environment and the aesthetic of my small, scratchy, Southern state is that I do not want this concept to proliferate...
This is where opinions differ, but some of us do not want the mentality that you seem to be defending to spread.
The SCC, as owners, are complicit in the egregious activity (some people's opinion) at some of their crags and need to step up.
That is really all.
But, to satiate your demands, I offer the following....

I have seen the climbing movement spread into areas that I have been playing in for my whole life and really screw things up.
Moss Rock Preserve.
Little River Canyon.
Others.

Same with other groups, so climbers aren't the only one's to blame.
I've seen 'em at hunting camps, 4wheeling venues, etc. as well.
As an example, my wife used to live on the Black Warrior River, where paddling has EXPLODED in Blount County, Alabama in the last twenty years.
My business partner lives just downstream of some main rapids, now.
It's just a thing that needs some regulation...

Having typically run with older, more seasoned climbers, I have heard stories about the expansion, entrenchment, and have seen the subsequent debacles at Sandrock, Foster's, YB, Moss Rock Preserve, Etc.
I was around when Sunset finally got settled back.
And having climbed that place out with Paul, who has links to Chris, you can appreciate my Legacy viewpoint.
Or not....
It seems lost on y'all....history, tradition...but, I digress.

To the degree that anyone has been more vocal than you would like, that may have a lot to do with other issues, other places, that have been dealt with or not.
Not YB, so much.
Vague enough?

So, Yellow Bluff....
My "big reveal" is likely a lot less dramatic than you seem to be insinuating.
The dude the discovered the crag should be with me next Friday and Saturday.
As you have called me out on not being a YB regular (the place sort of disgusts me), I hope you will find his credentials valid.

I believe the context of my statement, at the last meeting in ATL, was that 50% of the routes established at the time the SCC took control have been bolted.
Since that time, I believe probably double that amount of routes have been established.
So....
MP actually shows 52 roped-climbing routes, in total.
Let's say 26 routes existed at the time the SCC got the place, and I suspect this is high.
That would mean, 13 were bolted later.
We will know more next Saturday when we walk the cliff....
There ain't no reveal.
Some things just take some sequencing and time.

If you misunderstood me or I mispoke in Atlanta, I humbly apologize.
It's not often that I am met with such waves of insanity as have happened at these last two (gasp) "emergency" meetings.
....The 'grandstanding' that has been mentioned.

Sidebar: Emergencies do not usually get addressed over pizza and Coke at the gym or beer and pizza at someone's house.
Quite a bit more civil than you seem to be taking it.
I have offered my place for the next venue....
We can walk Steele or jump off to anywhere along the I-59 corridor.

Now...
If you will recall, one of the topics was SCC exposure in AL and GA.
These "meetings" seem to be the fruit of their best efforts to kick that off.
To that I say, hurrah.
I am pleased.
I appreciate Matt and Cody's efforts, but find yours and Plemmons' to be counter to progress.
Blather, even.

In general, for Yellow Bluff, there is a consensus that would suggest that we need to do the following.
Rather, the SCC, as it is THEIR crag.

"-any established retro without the consent of the first ascentionist approval should be chopped by local site management board.
-site mgmt board needs to be created of local climbers.
-individuals from outside Alabama (unless first ascentionist of route) have no business in the matter.
-no new routes at yb unless approved by site mgmt board."

And to that end....
Not to spoil "my" BIG REVEAL or anything.....
And to add a little more substance to the disagreement...
You see, it ain't all about retros.
It's about respect for yourself, style, and your crag.
Again, not YB local, but here are a couple routes for your consideration...
Retro:
mountainproject.com/v/tilt-… <--Where'd the info go?
mountainproject.com/v/mr-to…

That's just two.
I did that on purpose....

More:

Speculated, waiting on confirmation....
mountainproject.com/v/that-…

Questionable style:
mountainproject.com/v/mr-to…
mountainproject.com/v/unnam…
mountainproject.com/v/gossa… <--- permadraws on an 11??? Even for a "5.9 climber", this seems weak.

Blow this picture up:
mountainproject.com/v/10868…

This is just offensive, and I have seen this in person.
It's terrible.
mountainproject.com/v/tradm…

Now, for some good stuff....
mountainproject.com/v/cardi… <--- a good gear-protected route I have done.
mountainproject.com/v/doubl… <-- a good sport route I have done.
mountainproject.com/v/the-t… <--- would like to do.

So, home boy.....
I reckon that's what I/we have for you to be angry about, concerning YB, until "the meeting" and a walk-through...
I, for one, am looking forward to sampling some Straight to Ale beer in it's home spot.
Monkeynaut is a great IPA.
Hopefully, I'll be able to climb the next day.

Now.....
To drone on, but publicly, as you have demanded....
Let's not forget some other talking points that have yet to be addressed.
- What to do with SCC hardware that may or may not be off of SCC land...or hardware that is in strange places, at all.
- How to clear out transgressors who are actively "developing" private property....Bee, YC in the past....before we can open them for your beloved ACCESS.
- To that end, there are some jewels out there yet to be acquired....if the SCC ain't gonna do it, someone will.
- Tallulah, as an example, and Park/State representation, in general, needs some attention. I mean, Tallulah is closed right now, but Will and them are meeting Saturday. Something really awesome might be about to happen and where-better than there?

Some that have:
- Permadraws and Anchor Policy.....getting there.
- A "mission' type stance on ethics....we are getting there.
- Marking SCC property boundaries and not condoning 'sanctioned trespass'.
- Discussing the possibility of BEST PRACTICE clinics at gyms in ATL, BHM, and elsewhere.
- Deep Creek hatchet is buried.

No one is coming after anyone with pitchforks.
This is all in the best interest of a New Normal.

And, WWWWWW Wes.....
I used to have a stuttering/dyslexia problem.....
You can jump in a lake if you don't like my writing style.
It's so you can understand.
But not in the way you think I mean it.

P.S.....
Castle Rock:
mountainproject.com/v/wish-…

saxfiend · · Decatur, GA · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 4,221
wwes wrote:Ben, I don't have a guidebook and I may never go to Yellow Bluff. I'm simply asking you to clearly and publicly explain to us the accusations you've so loudly and publicly made. At the last meeting you estimated that 50% of the bolted lines at Yellow Bluff are retro bolts. That would mean there are well over 20 of them. It shouldn't be so difficult for you to go ahead and name a few so that we can all discuss them here.
Paul is doing such an admirable job of "moderating" this thread that I'm hesitant to chime in. But here's a couple of observations:

Wes -- I think it's perfectly reasonable for you to and others to ask for specifics about blanket accusations like those you're referring to, but I think you can do that without taking potshots at the accusers. Now that Ben has given you an answer (kinda sorta), I hope you'll finally acknowledge that there are some legitimate concerns that need to be addressed (even if they may not be as rampant as some people seem to think).

For those who are bringing up these legitimate concerns, I hope you'll recognize that vague assertions and exaggerations hurt your cause more than they help it. When people like the FA of Tilt-a-Whirl (who is definitely in a position to know the history of the place) are saying that there's really not that much to get worked up about at Yellow Bluff, it kind of undermines your position.

Thanks again to Paul for keeping things on a civil footing!

JL
BirminghamBen · · Birmingham, AL · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 1,620

Thank you, John, for the insight.
I reckon we're all square for now.
Let's go to NC this winter!

wwes · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2015 · Points: 0

In my very first post I said:

"Routes like Tilt-A-Whirl at YB sound like fairly egregious retro bolts and I would not be upset if they were chopped. They probably should be."

"...people had legitimate complaints/questions/concerns... it was difficult for me to hear about and understand the reasonable concerns through all the screaming about nonsense like the UNFoundation..."

OK, saxfiend, I've finally acknowledged it. You're right though, and I'm sorry if I've been rude. I know that's not helpful. Honestly. It's just difficult not to be after listening to Ben talk down to everybody from his “Legacy viewpoint”. But hey, at least he kinda sorta answered me, thank you Ben. And I will agree that Paul definitely deserves the most improved moderator award after basically threatening to fight people in the last thread. I apologize if I've hurt anybody's feelings, but I think these guys can handle it. To be clear, I have pretty much nothing to do with the SCC, besides being a member and occasionally offering some time or money. I promise I am not part of the conspiracy. I was only at that meeting because I happened to be working out in the gym already and was curious why people were pissed. I certainly wasn't mad. I didn't have too much to say because I didn't really have any complaints and didn't want to waste the SCC's or anybody else's time with my blather. I thought the internet would be a more appropriate forum for blathering. But my blather belongs to me and me alone. Plemmons is a friend of mine, but I assure you we don't always think the same. I did speak to him yesterday though – he bailed on going sport climbing with me this Saturday to attend the Tallulah meeting and try and help out with the really awesome things you mentioned. He's going to climb Whiteside that morning too, so y'all might want to send someone up there to check him for a drill on the way in. I forget the name of the route he's going to do... it's that trad route with the bold 5.7 death slab followed by the 5.11a bolt ladder crux. “Bolt the world” mentality and all! Anyhow, I'll try and quiet down here so as not to be too counter productive to progress. I know I'm eating up all your internet posting time. Sorry everybody.

Have fun guys!

xoxo

Paul Barnes · · Gainesville, Georgia · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 30
taipan jam wrote:So chop bolts on Proper Soul right? They are right next to protectable cracks...
I'll happily explain my take on this, since you asked. And this is just my personal opinion...nothing more. I think both those vids are some badass stuff...wicked hard rock climbs done in fine style. Do I think PS should be chopped...at this point I guess not...that would make me seem like some sort of wingnut and out would come the pitchforks. What I do think...and hear me out on this...is that it was put up before it's time by being done as a sport route. I contrast it with Cobra Crack, for instance. We've all seen that one too, right?

These types of discussions were really the reason I started this second thread. I think this stuff is debatable and I think folks, especially the super strong kids comin out of the gyms, need to take a look at this stuff and know that these things can be done. Is everyone up to that sort of challenge?...certainly not. Will SOME of them be?...absolutely. And my personal hope is that there will still be Cobra Cracks out there for the next Sonnie Trotter.

Also...I don't think this mantra applies only at the cutting edge of climbing. I think it applies at all grades and at all sorts of local crags around the country and especially here in the Sandstone Belt. I think a lot of lesser Proper Souls have been done down here in lieu of a lot of lesser Cobra Cracks...and I just think it's a shame. I don't expect everyone to agree with me. But if one would be bolter reads all of this and one day decides to leave one Proper Soul alone so that it might instead become one more Cobra Crack (so to speak)...then all of this will have been worth it.

I don't think I can explain it any better than that fellas...but fire away...
BirminghamBen · · Birmingham, AL · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 1,620
sam england wrote:Also, for the sake of clarity, only 2 bolts on tilt-a-whirl lie over the original gear line. Both the start and finish of the route is unique from the original line. I'm not saying this excuses anything but just wanted to make it clear that this whole thing has only been over 2 bolts.
To be clear, the problems at Y.B. are not only to do with Tilt A Whirl...your "two bolts".
And, I would be glad to discuss why you have not heard a strong statement from the F.A. on this, in private or at the meeting, as it is unrelated and somewhat personal.

Retros aside, Y.B. is plainly overbolted.
Can you deny that?
Does it give you more of Sandrock feel or more of a Jamestown feel?
And, if it does feel more like Foster's/Sandrock, does that matter to y'all?
This is all relative, but I'd enjoy a Huntsvillian perspective.
Nevermind the eradicated history.

Concerning retros...
What do you think about the guidelines I posted above concerning Y.B. or other SCC crags, in general?
Sam England · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 410
BHMBen wrote:I believe the context of my statement, at the last meeting in ATL, was that 50% of the routes established at the time the SCC took control have been bolted. Since that time, I believe probably double that amount of routes have been established. So.... MP actually shows 52 roped-climbing routes, in total. Let's say 26 routes existed at the time the SCC got the place, and I suspect this is high. That would mean, 13 were bolted later. We will know more next Saturday when we walk the cliff.... There ain't no reveal. Some things just take some sequencing and time. If you misunderstood me or I mispoke in Atlanta, I humbly apologize.
Seriously? Now you're just making stuff up.

You were not misunderstood, you did not misspeak, you just made a loud, blanket statement. The question was asked "How many retro bolts are there at Yellow Bluff, roughly?" You answered "I would say that 50% of the routes there, that are bolted, were done by me, Jody, or Shannon on gear, and Bernard, and Mark Cole" There is a recording of you saying it. So now you're going to lie about it. Click the link, it's clear as day. I'm not taking this out of context. There is nearly 2 hours worth of context there for anyone interested.

youtu.be/NRiG9UpyY-A?t=1h14…

Now you're backpedaling on your assertion. Look, I'm not defending retrobolting of other peoples routes and if you had read anything I've posted in this or the previous thread, that should be obvious. I get where you're coming from but if you are willing to lie, make blanket statements, and set up straw-men, you're going to have a hard time getting people on board with you.

As far as your specific route call outs, thank you for putting that up. At least now we can have point from which to discuss this. I'd love to know who got the FA on Mr. Toads. Can you share this info with us? Regarding the routes put up in "questionable style", I'm not sure what you mean by this. Are you saying they aren't retrobolts but they should have been done on gear? Also, you listed Mr. Toads in both categories so which is it?

On Gossamer I would recommend that you actually climb the route. It is about 75 degrees overhung and a hard 5.11d. The rock quality is poor and the bolts had to be placed in solid rock not near the actual climbing. Several of the bolts aren't reachable from the route so permadraws were added.

Tradmaster: route was named ironically. From the ground it looks like an obvious gear line. Ryan did the FFA (to our knowledge) on trad after it was aided to suss out protection options. Two pins (driven upwards under blocks) were added during the aid ascent and used for protection on the lead. The crux, 5.11d, sported a 30' ledge fall. After the ascent, the block one of the pins was behind broke off. The route then only had 2 points of protection, one of which was a piton and the other was on 5.6 terrain near the top. Yes it's a corner, no there isn't a crack in it. Ryan decided that no one would climb the route in it's current condition and recommended it's bolting. Climb the route (on bolts or gear) and get back to me on this.

Here are some questions this bring up for me. Does an FA have the right to add bolts on their own routes after the first ascent (for example Groover)? Can an aid line have bolts added after the FA to protect free climbing attempts (Glass Menagerie, Dawn Wall)? Is this up to the property manager, general community consensus, the FA, some combination? If a route is initially established as a sport climb and is later done on gear, does that person have the right to chop that route, regardless of the FA?
BirminghamBen · · Birmingham, AL · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 1,620

Well, Sam, calling someone a liar is pretty strong.
How about.....since you are selectively answering questions (as I must be) and are dissatisfied with my replies (as I am yours/y'all's)....we'll deal with it next Friday/Saturday, in person.

As I have said, my main concern resides elsewhere, with the exception of a style you are defending.
It's a style a lot of people, certainly a substantial portion of those at the ATL meeting, do not appreciate.
And that's my subjective logic concerning the list above, which you have partially addressed/criticized.

Route for route, detail for detail, I am not the best source for Y.B.
Happy?
I admit it.
So, what have I done?
Aside from pushing the issue with the SCC, as it is an ALABAMA issue....
I have solicited better sources to join us next weekend.
Perhaps, between you and your community, and one of the originators of climbing at Y.B., y'all can come to some agreement.
I expect that you will be surprised to hear his findings.

Again, the greater issue, for me, is keeping this sort of thing isolated.
In the end, if y'all decide to bolt Y.B. to death, short of a war, it'll be what it'll be.
My interest is pushing talks with the SCC so that THEY will take ownership and make sure things move into the future respectfully.
Guys like you seem to be working awfully hard to the contrary.

Timmy M. · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2015 · Points: 0

Some Yellow Bluff History for the Huntsville Meeting:
There are two parts of Yellow Bluff, left and right of the great roof. Left of the great roof is where 95% of the climbing happened in the 80s. That area contains all the high quality routes in the area. There are two ground breaking and historically important routes on that side: Rainbow Warrior, 5.13b, 1986 (the first 5.13 in Alabama) and Tour de jour, 5.14a, 1987 (the second 5.14 in the entire U.S.) both put up by Jesse Guthrie and he started some controversy when he used bolts and fixed gear. Today the left side of the cliff is still CLOSED and will probably remain that way forever. No one climbs there, there are not bolts or anchors there, there is no trail to that side of the cliff, there is a big no trespassing sign marking the boundary and every one that climbs at Yellow Bluff respects this boarder.

Part of the great roof is on SCC property and has one confirmed route from the 80’s. It is one the property line. That route was originally done by rappelling in from the top to the lip of the roof. Then from a hanging belay climb back out. People tried in the 80’s to find a way out the roof, but never did. There is also a route that started by climbing a tree to get to the roof, so there were shenanigans happening in the 80s too. That route is just off the SCC property and the fixed hex you clip is still there. It is visible from SCC property in the winter time when the leaves are gone.

The right side of the great roof is the main area owned by the SCC and open to climbing. More than a few people were bummed when they found out the left side was still closed. The SCC side of the cliff is completely different rock quality from the left side. In short it is a choss pile which is why Yellow Bluff is not currently a destination crag. There are currently 62 open routes at Yellow Bluff. 30 are bolted and 32 are trad routes. There are six routes on the main area that are confirmed from the 80’s: Tilt-a-Worl and Orange Crush then you have Dirty Love, Old School, Hollow man and Cardio. Their names are not original but they are routes from the 80’s.

The Tilt-a-worl retro bolt:
The line that is bolted is not really Tilt-a-worl. The bolted line shares a short section of the original route. The bolted line starts 10 feet left of the original route, they merge together 1/3 the way up and then split off for the last 40 feet. There are technically only 2 bolts on tilt-a-worl. I have done both the sport line and the gear line. If you follow the gear, you start and end in completely different places than the current bolted route. It is worth mentioning that the original ending of Tilt-a-worl does not have anchors. Should the bolts stay? Honestly, the crux bolt which is one of the controversial bolts spins and should either be pulled or replaced.

I have climbed all but three routes at YB and I know who placed every bolt and when and why. I would be glad to walk the cliff line and answer any questions about the bolting.

Paul Barnes · · Gainesville, Georgia · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 30
Timmy M. wrote: The SCC side of the cliff is completely different rock quality from the left side. In short it is a choss pile which is why Yellow Bluff is not currently a destination crag.
Says the former SCC Land Trust Property Manager?...wow.

I'm pretty sure that's not how it was being touted when money was needed to purchase it. But now one of the SCC's own says they bought a chosspile. Interesting.
Ryan7crew · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 485

Paul,
You do know that Tim is not the property manager, just sayin.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Southern States
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