Clean-up page?

The page to which I am referring is as follows.

mountainproject.com/v/geeze…

I'm wondering if maybe we should remove all of the photos that illustrate where bolts were (chopped at the time the photos were taken) next to cracks with examples of how the same approximate location could have been protected naturally (with a cam or nut placement.)

Even the main picture for the area is one of these types of photos.

Perhaps I shouldn't say this, but some (not all!) of the bolts have been repaired with glue-ins, I believe, which may be harder to chop; (I wouldn't know.)

In any case, those photos on the page seem to misrepresent the area as it is now, and don't offer any useful beta on the area.

Not in favor of removing someone's pictures, but I did vote with 4 stars the lone pic of a climber on the rock in hopes of moving it to first. But alas, I'm not a Utah admin, just a Utah Partners Admin so my efforts failed.

I just looked at the pics and imo they add value.

The value of not bolting right next to perfectly good gear.
The value that we will learn from this.
The value in placing gear.
The value in gear anchors when feasible.

There's a lot of anti-trad comments. I know I'm certainly not the only one who doesn't want my local crags turned into Rock Canyon where there's bolts everywhere.

The page could certainly be restructured, but leave the pics. Have a note about the history of the wall getting chopped.

spencerparkin wrote: the argument about the bolts is over.

How is the argument about drilling bolts next to good cracks over?

Spencer if you would like more up-to-date and current pictures added to the page, we could post more pictures of bolts redrilled next to perfectly good cracks.

mountainproject.com/u/andre…

There's your guy!

I think the photos add value - Geezer Wall should serve as a warning to folks who want to grid bolt areas that can be easily gear protected, and the photos provide great context to that discussion.

The area and route descriptions do need some updating to reflect current conditions though. I'll get around to that soon.

spencerparkin wrote:a new-comer or someone new to climbing can't know "the ethics of the area" unless someone tells them before or after they violate them.

Don't put up routes until you know, pretty simple.

spencerparkin wrote:drilling in the forest is illegal

Huh?

spencerparkin wrote:drilling in the forest is illegal

Where are you getting this idea from? It is perfectly legal to drill on National Forest land. The only question about drilling has to do with hand drilling vs power drilling. Power drilling is only allowed in non wilderness areas, hand drilling is legal on any national forest land unless it is specifically prohibited in a particular area.

spencerparkin wrote:You know, it just occurred to me that, instead of relying on word-of-mouth, why doesn't the climbing community here in the Wasatch come together and publish a formal document that explains the ethics of their specific area? People often say, "you need to follow the ethics of the area," but a new-comer or someone new to climbing can't know "the ethics of the area" unless someone tells them before or after they violate them. It's possible that had the original creator of the Geezer Wall known about the strongly-held ethics of the Wasatch, then the bolts, if any, would have gone in differently and in fewer numbers.

From time to time, folks do gather to discuss issues that pop up with regard to ethics, style and the like. The SLCA has spearheaded (hosted, facilitated) some of those discussions.

New-comers will have to have some time in the saddle figuring this stuff out. They should at least. Its a process. Go climb. Pay attention. Talk to folks at the crag. Folks in the gym. Folks at the SLCA party at BD next week. Read the guidebooks. Etc.

There's too many subtle nuances to areas to have a formal document describe the situation, IMHO. And, there's more than a couple people out that that would love to pick apart any such document.

I find the history of the Geezer Wall especially good information and a reminder of how thing ought, or, ought not, to be done. And, not everyone agrees. And...that's....okay. Big tent.

spencerparkin wrote:I believe, too, it was at the last SLCA/BD party that I met Alex Honnold and made a complete ass of myself. Felt so dumb! Totally blew that opportunity. I told him, "I have no idea what I'm doing here." He said, "I have no idea what I'm doing here either." Then we parted ways. Wish I had at least got him to sign a poster for me or something. Oh well.

Honnlove signs more than posters...

Feelin' the Honnlove...

spencerparkin wrote:Oh, okay. I didn't know the exact law as concerns drilling (by power or by hand) in a National Forest. Can holes for climbing bolts be hand-drilled into the rock? Sounds like that would be really hard, especially on lead.

FWIW, most of the climbing on the south side of the BCC road including Geezer Wall are in designated wilderness. Drilling is legal but not with a power drill. More than one person has accidentally drilled a few bolts sans knowing the location of the boundary.

As for the picts. leave them. They are a great reference.

spencerparkin wrote:Sounds like that would be really hard, especially on lead.

Yes it is really hard (especially in BCC quartzite), but it's the way it's been done for many years and it works.

The photos belong there.

spencerparkin wrote:Can holes for climbing bolts be hand-drilled into the rock? Sounds like that would be really hard, especially on lead.

You really should read more rock climbing history. The first use of power drills in climbing was sometime in the 80's. The vast majority of bolts in Yosemite, for example, were hand drilled.

Brian in SLC wrote: From time to time, folks do gather to discuss issues that pop up with regard to ethics, style and the like. The SLCA has spearheaded (hosted, facilitated) some of those discussions. New-comers will have to have some time in the saddle figuring this stuff out. They should at least. Its a process. Go climb. Pay attention. Talk to folks at the crag. Folks in the gym. Folks at the SLCA party at BD next week. Read the guidebooks. Etc. There's too many subtle nuances to areas to have a formal document describe the situation, IMHO. And, there's more than a couple people out that that would love to pick apart any such document. I find the history of the Geezer Wall especially good information and a reminder of how thing ought, or, ought not, to be done. And, not everyone agrees. And...that's....okay. Big tent.

Spencer, you have an amazing knack for posting topics in public forums that are best discussed after you've educated yourself. Brian's method is tried and true because you can talk to your friends in real life.

Allen S said,"FWIW, most of the climbing on the south side of the BCC road including Geezer Wall are in designated wilderness. Drilling is legal but not with a power drill. More than one person has accidentally drilled a few bolts sans knowing the location of the boundary.

As for the picts. leave them. They are a great reference."

Which is his way of letting you know that this is a spooky issue for anyone who brings up controversially bolted crags on FS land. Come volunteer with the SLCA at their LCC crag day this Saturday and the party next Thursday. Find out what they've already done to help with this situation. Then work with them on it. Volunteering IRL is a much more productive way to get things done.

SLCA - National trails day

spencerparkin wrote: Yeah, I remember. The wall was so easy for you and your bodies that you free-soloed all over it to get your pictures...well, on most of the routes.

They were 5.5 routes! You don't need bolts on 5.5 spencer Taylor Parkin..
Sorry if this is an offensive post'

This post violated Rule #1. It has been removed by Mountain Project.

This post violated Rule #1. It has been removed by Mountain Project.

Mikewhite, you have undoubtedly violated Guideline #1.

Boissal wrote: Says the guy who's been antagonizing him relentlessly for the past day or so. He's acting like a beater in this thread but you sure are putting a solid fight to reclaim the title... BWAH! I'm drowning in irony over here...

Coming for the biggest troll on this website?