Leading a large party

im going to lead 2 other climbers up a popular climb at the gunks. It's very busy. A guide I hired had me and my brother climb at the same time. One climber about ten feet ahead of the other. I'd like to try that method if I can get good advice on how to do it . He used a gi - gi . I have that and the the mammut and the bd belay devic.
Advice appreciated

Along with use of the device for just belaying 2 seconds, there are potential issues of having to lower a 2nd, rope management with two ropes, changeover for you to lead the subsequent pitches. Managing three at a belay station etc. And you intend to do this at a busy crag? I question whether you need to seek advice or instruction. Not really something to learn from an online romper room. Get someone to teach you the comprehensive package on the ground before you take to the sky.

Without instruction and ground school, it might save time en route to belay one at a time rather than turn it into a giant cluster that you don't know how to manage.

I second this advice: Don't learn to lead two followers on a popular, crowded route.

Belaying two followers at once isn't that hard if things go well, but can be awkward if they don't.
I would humbly suggest that you will have a better time if you lead the pitches, bring up partner number two (who should clip his back rope into all the pieces) then bring up partner three, who cleans the gear. Repeat as needed to top of the cliff.

If you are worried about delaying others, maybe start a little later in the day, behind another party. If it's an easy route then there's a good chance they will be slower than you, even if a party of 2! In which case you can complain bitterly about them.

You could also have your third drop coins behind flakes so as to slow down following parties while they search for the treasure, or maybe purposefully fix a couple of old pieces on each pitch, slowing down those behind you while they try to retrieve the booty. They might even give it back to you for a beer or two, which would be kind of a win-win for all concerned.

Good points. I guess this isn't the place or time to learn to lead 2 seconds a new way. But I'm still interested in understanding the method of having both seconds simul climb each pitch and the implications that this presents. One of my questions has to do with an injured climber event if both seconds were climbing. The guide who I saw do this belayed both climbers from a single device called a gi gi . I think self rescue could get really complicated

You can really easily bring up two seconds with ATC in guide mode. But if somebody had to hang or got hurt it could be really challenging to handle that situation. The kongo gigi belay plate would allow you to do the same thing as an atc with guide mode.

djh860 wrote:Good points. I guess this isn't the place or time to learn to lead 2 seconds a new way. But I'm still interested in understanding the method of having both seconds simul climb each pitch and the implications that this presents. One of my questions has to do with an injured climber event if both seconds were climbing. The guide who I saw do this belayed both climbers from a single device called a gi gi . I think self rescue could get really complicated

Fatter ropes supposedly pull easier through a gi-gi, but you can use a Reverso or ATC guide to bring up two followers, also.

I suggest you hire a guide to teach you this method of climbing.

Hiring a guide is an excellent way of improving your rock skills, and will make you make you look ubber cool at the crag.

Make sure he is officially certified, and can climb at least 5.11d.

Then take to those really popular multi pitch climbs and shred the gnar gnar.

Don't let the naysayers hold you back, you can fly!!!

djh860 wrote:im going to lead 2 other climbers up a popular climb at the gunks. It's very busy. A guide I hired had me and my brother climb at the same time. One climber about ten feet ahead of the other. I'd like to try that method if I can get good advice on how to do it . He used a gi - gi . I have that and the the mammut and the bd belay devic. Advice appreciated

Have you since led the route? Do the other 2 climbers know how to belay? Both Mammut and BD make more than one belay device; which ones?

Honestly, it sounds like a really bad idea. If you want to do it, have someone teach you how to use a gi-gi, or any of the other numerous devices that do the same thing, then practice it somewhere that's easy to get out of if you have trouble. Or stick to one second climbing at a time; there's a lot less overhead in managing that. Make sure you're comfortable leading the route before you take up someone else with less experience.

FrankPS wrote: Fatter ropes supposedly pull easier through a gi-gi, but you can use a Reverso or ATC guide to bring up two followers, also.

Not just fatter ropes, all ropes :)
I routinely use my Gigi for bringing up two followers with all ropes, even with 8.x double ropes because it is easier on the arms. It really is so much smother than an ATC Guide or reverso, which I still carry for lead belaying, raps, etc.

The mechanics of belaying two people at once can be simple, but you need to apply some thinking to how the belay should operate. In some cases you might want to consider putting both people on a single rope, with the weaker climber in the front which will 1. allow the climber in the back to give help to the weaker climber, and 2. the climber that is more likely to stumble or fall off the route can be arrested by the belay and not the other climber they are attached to.

If the route is at the edge of the climbing ability of your group, then it would a wiser idea to use two ropes and utilize a guide style ATC device so that they can be belayed individually but still climb at the same time.

One of the most important aspects of belaying in a threesome is anchor construction, which is critical when climbing on gear, and if you don't get that right then you're putting your whole party in danger.

I do agree that it is a GREAT idea to pay a guide to teach you how to operate a belay in a threesome, but I think if you've got a good head on your shoulders and can think clearly in hazardous conditions, you could probably pull it off without a hitch.

I'd recommend watching this video - it goes over some good points about threesomes. It's a little bit long winded and involved but mike barter videos rock.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpHOvDJlXlQ

The standard procedure is to use a GiGi 2 and a couple of 7.7 twin ropes, best of luck

Collette

Pretty sure this is a troll.

djh860 wrote:He used a gi - gi

Being new to climbing this is the first time I have heard reference to a GiGi. I was thinking GriGri, got my attention.

Anyway, I too have had a guide simultaneously belay us off a BD Guide ATC using two ropes. He was very busy at the belay station. I had no cause for alarm because I use the guide ATC and am familiar with it's "auto locking" function when configured correctly in a top belay. The GiGi looks like it would function in a similar fashion, but not sure about the "auto locking" capability.

But as we all know, locking off a fall is more about the belayer than the device.

As for doing it for the first time it's always better to have professional instruction. I made a practice anchor that I hang on something to practice setting up different types of anchors and practice knots etc. Get to together with your friends and yard practice the technique until it is smooth and everyone is happy with the integrity of the system.