Simul Climbing Techniques

I simul climb a lot of sub 5.8 stuff. Lead until your rack is small but hopefully enough for a one or two piece anchor. This sort of terrain can lend itself to a lot of natural pro: ridges, step downs, going between really huge and well attached flakes and boulders, etc. As a follower i will be climbing at a faster rate than the leader, but using a belay device or gri gri I control the slack. I like to think of it as a series of pitches where I am climbing between no hands rests and belaying from those stances with 20-30 ft of rope to work with. As for rope length, 80-100 ft is best, you need to hear each other in order to know you have enough pieces between each oter and decrease rope drag.

This sounds like a great way to really ensure a fall has the worst possible outcome. (assuming a single-rated rope and you're using it as a 'double') You're increasing the forces on the gear and climbers in any fall situation by greatly reducing the rope's stretch. Bad idea.


I usually do not clip both strands through each piece. Instead alternate. For me, falling is not an option while simulclimbing. If you take a fall simuling you or your partner are most likely going to get fucked up big time even if the all the gear holds and you get maximum rope stretch.

BJB wrote:I recently simuled the Third Flatiron in CO and had kind of a miserable time with it. We had a really long rope. I was following, going a bit faster than the leader, and had to keep managing an ever growing loop, making sure it did not get caught underneath a flake or something. What are some systems/techniques to alleviate this problem? I love climbing long, easy/moderate multi-pitches but would really like to find a way to do it faster. What would be the biggest disadvantages to using a really short rope, like 30 - 40 ft? If I also had a full length rope for rappelling or sections where we needed a proper lead belay, are there any problems with just using a really short rope?

Hmm. There are many things you could do to work on this problem. However, given what others and yourself have brought up vis a vie your wife, suck conditions, etc, I would recommend getting a leader (could be your wife, could be someone else) and get out on a nice sunny day on a climb you're comfortable on. When you're practicing with a technique, especially for what appears to be the first couple times, that is so rife with opportunities to screw up (or sleep on the couch for a while), give yourself all the breaks you can. Then you'll be able to actually solicit advice - 'boy I noticed that in situation x, this suboptimal thing happened. Suggestions?' instead of asking for advice on something that could be related to technique, weather, emotions, etc etc etc (and is likely a combination of several of them).

One element I try to incorporate is having the leader place pro at the same time the follower is cleaning a piece. While this is not always possible, it makes for faster climbing than if the leader stops to place pro, and then a few feet later the team has to stop so the follower can clean.

Simul climbing is all about teamwork.

John

powderfinger wrote:I usually do not clip both strands through each piece. Instead alternate.

This still comes across as a bad way to use a single-rated rope. Just coil 1/2 the rope and have the follower wear it. (and I agree that simuling should only be done when treated as soloing)

Matt N wrote: This sounds like a great way to really ensure a fall has the worst possible outcome. (assuming a single-rated rope and you're using it as a 'double') You're increasing the forces on the gear and climbers in any fall situation by greatly reducing the rope's stretch. Bad idea. If I'm picturing this wrong, lemme know. And this was mentioned in a magazine as a 'tip'? I really must be seeing it wrong.

I've used that system before, but have just used one double rope, doubled over. I'd prefer this method over carrying coils, personally.

It is valuable for the stronger climber to go second.

Jon Rhoderick wrote: I simul climb a lot of sub 5.8 stuff. Lead until your rack is small but hopefully enough for a one or two piece anchor. This sort of terrain can lend itself to a lot of natural pro: ridges, step downs, going between really huge and well attached flakes and boulders, etc. As a follower i will be climbing at a faster rate than the leader, but using a belay device or gri gri I control the slack. I like to think of it as a series of pitches where I am climbing between no hands rests and belaying from those stances with 20-30 ft of rope to work with. As for rope length, 80-100 ft is best, you need to hear each other in order to know you have enough pieces between each oter and decrease rope drag.

Jon (or someone) could you describe what you do with the slack when you pull it through the Grigri? Coils over your shoulder? Just stack it on a ledge and wait? And then how do you decide when to give the slack back? Are you having a conversation with the leader as you climb about the terrain you're both encountering?

Optimistic wrote: Jon (or someone) could you describe what you do with the slack when you pull it through the Grigri? Coils over your shoulder? Just stack it on a ledge and wait? And then how do you decide when to give the slack back? Are you having a conversation with the leader as you climb about the terrain you're both encountering?

My simil-climbing experience is possibly different to others. I mostly do it on normal rock climbs rather than Alpine ridges, and always have a trax in the system. If the second has a grigri it is used mostly to stop her taking a big fall on a hard bit. She simply pulls the rope through and lets it lie on the rock, then as soon as possible, once the leader is moving again pulls it back out through the grigri. However this needs two hands. For Alpine stuff, she would be on easier stuff, so coiling around her shoulders would work.

Where a grigri is fab for Alpine I find is were the route is a long combination of walking and small harder sections: take coils as normal, but with the leader and second using a grigri. This means they can pitch the hard bits almost without stoping.

A lot of good points have been made in various posts. Here is one way to summarize them ...

The most generalized protocol for simul-climbing is probably ...

• full-length rope with around half of it coiled / knotted betwixt the leader and follower such that a tug on the rope goes right to the harness tie-in points;
• second must not fall and does not let unreasonable slack build up so a leader fall is not unnecessarily long
• good communication is needed, in part should the follower need to go slower than the leader in a section
• if leader calls down for a fixed belay, follower anchors and belays out rope after releasing their coil
• if second calls up for a belay, leader releases rope as needed to get to where he/she can anchor in and then belays from above as normal

That's in general. Parties could adjust it if ...

• they agree needing a fixed belay is Unlikely

and / or

• it is a long way between gear placements

and / or

• etc.

BJB wrote:and had to keep managing an ever growing loop, making sure it did not get caught underneath a flake or something.

Would it be possible to use the "Saddlebag" technique, instead of playing rope out you would loop it in while going up.

Rappeling using a saddle bag.

burado wrote:Hey, these links might be worth reading if you enjoy the advantages of simul climbing. It's good to be aware of what can go wrong and be prepared for the consequences. No one's immune unfortunately. publications.americanalpine… publications.americanalpine…

That first accident report link doesn't refer to simulclimbing like we're discussing here. It's talking about a leader traditionally bringing up two seconds at the same time.

Hi everyone,

I would like to share an article that my two climbing partners and I recently put together. We spent a lot of time researching and testing various methods for simul-climbing, and have compiled all of the information into one article. Why? Everything we discuss is essential to the success of our system, yet no where had we read anything that provides all of the best information in one place.

Thanks to some helpful feedback, we've learned that the language we used in parts of the article (which was intended to draw the reader in) may have been too inviting. No, we would never recommend that an inexperienced multi-pitch climber pick up simul-climbing to help speed them up.

I wanted to share our article here because there are already many good disclaimers about the added risks incurred while simul-climbing. So, if you have read this far, and still want to try your hand with a faster system, check out our article! The Choss Boys' Theory of Simul-climbing

only time i simo roped is when i can't find a belay and have to keep going so its generaly not planned and which measnthat I don't have a ropeman and quite possibly did not even know that my last piece of good gear was the last piece of good gear... just don't fall and its all good....

Nick AW Brown wrote:Hi everyone, I would like to share an article that my two climbing partners and I recently put together. We spent a lot of time researching and testing various methods for simul-climbing, and have compiled all of the information into one article. Why? Everything we discuss is essential to the success of our system, yet no where had we read anything that provides all of the best information in one place. Thanks to some helpful feedback, we've learned that the language we used in parts of the article (which was intended to draw the reader in) may have been too inviting. No, we would never recommend that an inexperienced multi-pitch climber pick up simul-climbing to help speed them up. I wanted to share our article here because there are already many good disclaimers about the added risks incurred while simul-climbing. So, if you have read this far, and still want to try your hand with a faster system, check out our article! The Choss Boys' Theory of Simul-climbing

This page is awesome, thanks man. Theres also tons of great info on this topic in Topher Donahues new book. "Advanced Rock Climbing" with TC on the cover