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Tallulah Gorge Peregrines

Stephen Felker · · Boulder, CO · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 552

The southeast has great rock, but its relative scarcity compared to other parts of the country lends itself to contention between and amongst user groups. If nothing else, the latest string of debate regarding rock climbing in Georgia demonstrates that a vast majority of our tribesmen care passionately about our limited resources. Filter out the mud slinging (and sarcasm) and we actually appear pretty good at policing ourselves!

BirminghamBen · · Birmingham, AL · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 1,620
Bstriker wrote:"You can start be reading your access org of choice's overall mission statement and "rules" for any given area...and then contrast that with the tactics of their kool-aid drinkin minions or their crack bolting President (yeah, I said it) at said area on any given weekend. It won't give you the entire picture....but it's a start." Paul, Paul, Paul........ You may say nothing about these selfless orgs that serve the interests of all climbers! You know the drill you must. A) Show up to a trail day B) Donate Money C) Shut up D) Hold nobody directly accountable for anything no matter how egregious E) Shut up, its all good, they got it F) Give more money BTW señor Barnes, you best tone it down or Johnny boy will edit you, he always interrupts when the adults are talking, no manners, what can you do....
I'm just really pleased to see the men in the room stand up.
Striker, Paul, Ray, JL, Stephen, Tom, Davis/Rhett, Southerners....
It is true...policing needs attention right now.
There is, to Paul's points...strangeness.
Just today....I took off of work to climb at a place near and dear to my heart.
What do I see?
Fresh ring anchors, fresh bolts, not only where they dubiously belong, but also off of sanctioned property...and this coincides with SF's good commentary....land, open land, is scarce in the SE and East coast, in general.
So.....to allow the "Organization's" much coveted "ACCESS", there needs be some brainpower applied.

We all got twisted on the stupid publicizing of a non-endangered animal's presence at Tallulah.
Recently, Dude said he'd naturally avoid a sparrow....
I ain't no vegan, I would too.
And I would do so without alerting an already tempestuous Park Service.

Point is....
Be it Tallulah or private property or something in between, the rise of the Helmeted Legions, uneducated and ignorant by way of the "community", sometimes need a gut check.

Y'all are welcome on Paul's behalf.

P.S...
Not only has PB reproduced...
Lil' Paul is better adjusted, smarter, and healthier than most kids I know....
AND....his Ol' Lady is hotter than yours!
Rhett Burroughs · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 230

would the real slim shady please stand up?

Raul... No job yet, interview next week.

Raul P · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2013 · Points: 35

Roll tide. But don't call me a southerner!

I imagine those new ring anchors made a nice addition to your collection....if not yet I'm sure they will be soon.

Jim Corbett · · Keene, NY · Joined Sep 2008 · Points: 10

I'm reminded of when peregrines were removed from the endangered list in the '90s. A group of climbers met with NC Fish and Wildlife, who said they were taking over falcon protection and that they would continue the cliff closure program until they had two hundred nesting pairs in the state. I'm guessing they passed that a long time ago, but that closures are now defacto a permanent program whether necessary or not, because these things develop a political constituency among the 'feel good' set and the bureaucrats whose jobs are to oversee it--see some of the posts above from out of state twits. Just shows the wisdom of Doc Bayne, who after the meeting told me, 'Hell, I probably know where there are two hundred nesting pairs now, but I'll be god damned if I'm going to tell them where, because they'll just close those areas, too.'

I've climbed near peregrine nests (within 50') on a few of those off the radar cliffs, the parents bitched at us, and once we realized they were there we would avoid going near it thereafter. They stayed with the nests and the chicks typically fledged successfully and went on their merry way. You don't actually need the government to micro-manage everything.

I'm also reminded of the first time I went up Whitesides ('87?). There were no closures then, but as we neared the top of the OR we heard and then saw a couple of peregrines, then when we got to the top we saw all kinds of rangers running about with binoculars and we knew the writing was on the wall. As we coiled the ropes a falcon flew by and Mark remarked mildly, 'You never have a shotgun when you need one.' (It was a joke, panty wad guys. Mostly.)

beensandbagged · · smallest state · Joined Oct 2013 · Points: 0

After following this thread I am left with the impression the birds aren't the problem, they are just the easiest target. The real problem seems to be the attitude of the park management and the state of Georgia towards climbing.

BirminghamBen · · Birmingham, AL · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 1,620
beensandbagged wrote:After following this thread I am left with the impression the birds aren't the problem, they are just the easiest target. The real problem seems to be the attitude of the park management and the state of Georgia towards climbing.
That would be true.

In this case, I believe the park sees climbing as an allowable nuisance. For me, it's almost intolerable to have to deal with the stringent guidelines, "gorge floor permit" application and interrogation process, and the spontaneous disallow of climbing. There's also the surveillance. More than once have I been climbing while scoped by a ranger from the other side or met at the top. Borderline harassment if you ask me...

My solution: climb elsewhere.

It's sad because Tallulah is, absolutely, one of the coolest places to climb in the SE and certainly the foremost venue in GA.
...Unless someone can get Stone Mountain opened back up.
Will Carney · · Tallulah Falls, GA · Joined Aug 2014 · Points: 135

Jon,
We got a "fly by" on Mescaline Daydream a week or so ago and could see them again when we climbed out at Digital Delight. Danny and the rest of the park crew is aware of their presence, and has been.
The notion that the TGSP staff is anti climbing is not a sentiment shared by me. Currently there is a wealth of fresh faces at the Interpretive Center and every person there sees the value and history of climbing in the Gorge. That's not to say I'm on board with all the stipulations put forth from the Park but without some form of dialogue we will never see changes in favor of more access. Last time I spoke to Danny I posed a few questions and he seemed open to hearing out viable solutions. He is certainly aware that he does not possess the climber perspective and seems to welcome the input when presented in a way that highlights safety, responsibility and stewardship.
Some items to consider:
1- Access to the Dungeon Wall-limited due to the "committing" nature of the venue and lack of rescue options....
2- Access to the Upper Buttress-limited due to lack of safe access to the base of the climb.(rapping in is not currently permitted)
3- Use of rappel as an access tool-if you've ever made the hike into the Main Face you can understand where this has some appeal. Also, for the Upper Buttress, this would be a step towards regaining access.
4- Climbing permits are only given when floor access permits are given-this current system doesn't allow for the fact that the Main Face conditions are starkly different from the those found on the Gorge floor.
So there's a few issues worth opening dialogue about. Danny has always taken the time to meet with me and I'm sure he would be happy to hear any productive ideas from any of you. Personally I would like to see a group form with the goal of addressing some of these issues....specifically at Tallulah.

Tom-onator · · trollfreesociety · Joined Feb 2010 · Points: 790

In the interest of appeasing all the intersted parties I'd recommend carrying a sack full of young squab next to your chalkbag when climbing near birds of prey.

If a falcon does a fly by, chuck a squab in its gullet and instantly you've made a friend!

The parent falcon will feed the squab to it's young which will grow to adulthood and produce more young.

It's a win win situation since everybody knows that pigeons are genetically modified rats with wings.

BirminghamBen · · Birmingham, AL · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 1,620

Will,

I agree and I think this should be a Georgia-centric issue.
Glad to hear things are looking up.
If you think you have an audience, now is the time to act.

Sadly, it seems that none of the concerned organizations are very interested in effecting change in GA and AL.
Chatt? Sure.

There are things afoot here in AL that are being affected without the assistance of larger organizations.
I firmly believe that a mature, strategic, focused approach to some of these access issues (Tallulah, Yellow Creek, etc.) is the only way.....
Not the kumbaya-ladden, "what's in it for me", we'll hold a fundraiser at Stone Summit sort of approach.

If you need to linkup with any of the Georgia Olde Guarde, if you are not already connected, let me know.
I have discussed this very issue with others who I am sure would help you in your approach to the park.

Paul Barnes · · Gainesville, Georgia · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 30
Will Carney aka ElGato wrote: Last time I spoke to Danny I posed a few questions and he seemed open to hearing out viable solutions. He is certainly aware that he does not possess the climber perspective and seems to welcome the input when presented in a way that highlights safety, responsibility and stewardship... Danny has always taken the time to meet with me and I'm sure he would be happy to hear any productive ideas from any of you. Personally I would like to see a group form with the goal of addressing some of these issues....specifically at Tallulah.
I have met and spoken with Mr. Tatum and found him to be very approachable. I get along just fine with him. Cool cat in my opinion. I'd be down for taking a meeting with him. The thing is ya have to be calm, know what you wanna say and how to say it, and not come at folks like him in positions of authority with any sort of entitlement mentality. A little humility and respect goes a long way. I think THE most important issue at Tallulah is addressing the possibility of a separate permit for climbing, rather than the the gorge floor permitting system.
Will Carney · · Tallulah Falls, GA · Joined Aug 2014 · Points: 135

Paul,
The permit issue is very solvable IMO based on Danny and Jessica's responses to inquiries about instituting a climbing specific permit. Currently the permitting is based loosely on weather(no rain for 24hrs), scheduled activity(boating, high angle exercise), and... it seems, ranger presence. The Main Face is often dry shortly after rainfall due to it's sun exposure whereas the floor remains wet for days with the runoff and shade of the Gorge walls.
Ben,
I have been in touch with some of the FA'ers to get their take on access management. Always looking for more positive input. I would love to see the Dungeon access regained.

saxfiend · · Decatur, GA · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 4,221
Will Carney aka ElGato wrote: Jon, We got a "fly by" on Mescaline Daydream a week or so ago and could see them again when we climbed out at Digital Delight. Danny and the rest of the park crew is aware of their presence, and has been. The notion that the TGSP staff is anti climbing is not a sentiment shared by me. Currently there is a wealth of fresh faces at the Interpretive Center and every person there sees the value and history of climbing in the Gorge. That's not to say I'm on board with all the stipulations put forth from the Park but without some form of dialogue we will never see changes in favor of more access. Last time I spoke to Danny I posed a few questions and he seemed open to hearing out viable solutions. He is certainly aware that he does not possess the climber perspective and seems to welcome the input when presented in a way that highlights safety, responsibility and stewardship.
Will -- this is very encouraging information. The dialogue you're referring to should have been initiated long ago by the Southeastern Climbers Coalition. The question is -- why has the SCC dropped the ball on Tallulah Gorge for so long?

A couple of other observations:

-- In all the times I've climbed at Tallulah, I've never felt any kind of adversary relationship or bad attitude toward climbers by the rangers or other personnel there. My tolerance for things like filling out permits is much higher than Ben's; on the other hand, my tolerance for rednecks dropping rocks on climbers is much lower than Ben's, so I guess it all evens out.
-- If the people running Tallulah really wanted to close down climbing, I think the fatal climber fall on Mescaline Daydream a few years back would have given them all the excuse they needed. I doubt the raptor situation is much to be concerned about.

JL
Anonymous · · Unknown Hometown · Joined unknown · Points: 0

From my understanding climbing at the dungeon or other areas was never actually 'legal' in the first place. It was just a different era back then.

Jim Corbett · · Keene, NY · Joined Sep 2008 · Points: 10

Actually, in the good old days none of the climbing in the Gorge was 'legal'; it's just that Ga. Power didn't give a sh!t. Longer walk then, but a pleasant one, and it kept the riff raff out.

Oh yeah, we were the riff raff.

Glad I got to do Earth, Wind and Fire and Stretch before all this BS started, though I never had an issue with the rangers after the state moved in.

Will Carney · · Tallulah Falls, GA · Joined Aug 2014 · Points: 135

The opening of dialogues here is easier for me because I'm a local. My son and I hike over there nearly every day. We pick up trash around the park. We help direct hikers and return lost property. We're part of the landscape. The Interpretive Rangers and DNR law enforcement officers are our neighbors and know without a shadow of a doubt what our intentions are. One of the Rangers has even followed me up Digital Delight. That makes hard conversations about touchy subjects slightly easier to have. As a member of the SCC and having had a few "trail day" discussions and preliminary idea discussions with some of the guys in the leadership it seems to me that these avenues which are available to me are slightly easier rows to hoe than would be made available to a group who might be perceived as self serving or entitled to someone who does not share their passion for the sport. I hope that through sharing my climbing adventures with the staff and talking to them at length about the sport, risk management and mitigation, they too have begun to have an appreciation for the climber's perspective on things.

Tapawingo Markey · · Reno? · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 75
Chris Hara wrote: I'm confused. You claim that GA SP could possibly read this forum, so therefore a climber mentioning that we should GIVE SPACE to the peregrine nest is going to damage climbing access. I would contend that GA SP reading about you stating, in a public forum, to hide the nest and climb anyways, without the desire for responsible stewardship of wildlife, is far more damaging than what the OP said. So despite the fact that the park allows climbing by their own choice, we should try to police ourselves and work apart from the system rather than with the system? I understand the park dislikes climbers as a user group, but perhaps this is a reason why. The Access Fund, SCC, and CCC use a model of cooperation with existing owners, right? They seem to be doing pretty well on the access front.
+1

I'm sorry you all have to deal with access issues down there but the OP was just passing on the word so others can avoid an encounter with a nest site, relax.
jeep gaskin · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 10

the birds have been there for years. the op is still a dolt for posting it. I'd be grateful to be included in any meeting with park staff concerning climbing. I love that place.

webdog · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2009 · Points: 0

If you've never tried to climb a tallulah then you don't really understand. Yea climbing is "allowed" but access is tightly controlled. Gotta get a gorge permit = no early starts, if there has been rain or threat of rain = no permit, etc, etc.
Adding another reason to deny climbing does nobody any favors. The climbs are fairly adventurous so people going to the gorge should be pretty good judges of what they can/can't handle. It ain't sandrock

Ezra Ellis · · Hotlanta · Joined Dec 2007 · Points: 0

This has turned into a great thread,
Will, the Georgia climbing community thanks you for being the park ambassador!!!!
Best
Ezra

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Southern States
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