Metolius Supercam in the ADKs

I'm looking at buying the large size because I'm going to be climbing in the Adirondacks this summer and I don't have any pieces larger than a #3 C4. Is it worth it to pick one of these up instead of a 3.5 and a 4? Or should I just get one of those sizes? I want to sample a wide range of the climbing there, especially the bigger hand/fist cracks I don't get here in the Gunks.

• * I edited this because I meant a supercam, sorry for the mixup

Mastercam doesn't go above C4's #1. As far as I know, nothing Metolius makes is above #4 camalot.

Dan, the new mastercams are updating to a 7 and 8 size, so the New mc will cover around a #3 c4 size. You're better off with something tried and true over the New mastercams right away anyway. When I climbed in the daks I was generally happy to have a #4, but I'm also a weenie.

I meant the large Supercam actually, sorry for that mixup

I haven't climbed in the ADK enough to tell you what you need. But I wanted to offer up that the Helium Friend #4 is the Old Camelot 3.5 replacement. If you think the C4#4 may be overkill, the WC-HF#4 is smaller, lighter, with better overlap. It specifically works better for me, because I own BD-C4#3, WC-HF#4, and then BD-C#4, and the overlap there is quite nice. Anyway, check the ranges:

#4 Ranges

This chart makes it look like the large Supercam and the camalot #4 have almost the same range, could that be right? I thought the supercam had significantly better range than even double axle cams... maybe the usable range is better?

BD only gives a range: 66-114.7mm
Metolious Min/Max: 67.3-118.1mm
Metolious Usable: 68-105.4mm

It's not possible for supercams to have a better range, because they use a smaller cam angle and don't have the advantage of the double-axle. I've never researched them period, but don't know how that could be done.

EDIT: Just read about the asymmetrical cam lobes, and how they work. Clever, and OutdoorGearLab says they have a ton of range, so not sure why the numbers appear as such. OGL also had some other things to say you might want to read into. Once you realize how the cam gets that 'extra-range', it makes you think a bit.

Check out how the lobes work:

Smaller cam lobes loop around axle.

I wish I knew how the two compared on rock, not on paper. Why would they make a cam that costs and weighs significantly more than the c4 equivalent if it didn't have better usable range? Also, why would anyone buy it? Thanks for the info by the way, Tom

What routes were you thinking you need a BD #4 or a Lg super cam? All my friends who live in Keene, Keene Valley and LP don't use anything higher than a #3 99% of the time. The rack they told me to buy was doubles, maybe triples of .5-3 for Dacks cracks. That's worked well for me so far.

I read on several other forum topics that its nice to have a few pieces above 3" in the daks. But first-hand advice is better. If I can put off buying more gear, that's always good, I can always pick something big up in Burlington or at the Mountaineer if I find I need it.

Daniel Affsprung wrote:I wish I knew how the two compared on rock, not on paper.

Ya seriously, if the Supercam does out-perform the BD equivalent, Metolious has to step their marketing game up. Cuz on paper it appears, their is no reason whatsoever to gravitate towards one. I guess if you really love that 13.5 cam angle!!

Daniel Affsprung wrote:I read on several other forum topics that its nice to have a few pieces above 3" in the daks. But first-hand advice is better. If I can put off buying more gear, that's always good, I can always pick something big up in Burlington or at the Mountaineer if I find I need it.

Depends entirely on the wall/route you're climbing. Odd gear needs typically show up in the comments for a climb if it's in the MP database. In my experience, anything protected by a #5 or larger is an off width, and there's not too many of those in the adks (at least not a lot of long sections). Finger to fist sized cracks are most common. C4 Doubles from .5 to #2 are generally considered mandatory. We also carry a #3 and #4 in our adk rack.