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Gunks AAC campground update?

losbill · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 130
waltereo wrote: Camp slime is closed. Last week-end I went there and notification signs has been post there and in the west trap parking lot asking people to camp at the MUA. My question is , what is the status of the MUA after the opening if the AAC campground on May 15 ?
Walter, interesting. When I called the Preserve last week they said that Slime would close on May 15th. Perhaps I misunderstood.

In response to an email inquiry last week to the DEC Region 3 Office regarding the status of camping at the MUA I received, in part, the following response:

"The MUA still exists and there is still camping allowed."

They indicated that currently there is no plan to eliminate camping at the MUA. However they did note that elimination of camping at the MUA was an option for the future as noted in the current Shawangunk Ridge Unit Management Plan if "the overuse and crowding issues associated with the MUA" continue.

Given the elimination of the MUA sites on the north side of the road a couple of years ago, the closing of Slime and the pricey AAC alternative it is likely the "overuse and crowding issues" at the MUA will continue. Thus it would seem likely the MUA will eventually be closed to camping but it will not be happening immediately.

The management plan appears to also contain the option to transfer the MUA property to the State Office of Parks, Recreation and Historic Preservation. Presumably such a transfer would mean the MUA would become a actively-managed, fee-based State campground.

However given the fact the AMC/AAC effort over the years resulted in the need to obtain property and privately develop a campground would seem to indicate the DEC/OPRHP is unwilling to convert MUA to a State campground.

For reference, from the current version of the Managment Plan under the Management and Actions section (page 60)

Ulster 1—Shawangunk Multiple Use Area
1. Initiate restoration of impacted areas.
2. Consider interagency transfer of property to OPRHP.
3. Reduce number of designated campsites or eliminate camping on the property.
Happiegrrrl · · Gunks · Joined Dec 2005 · Points: 60
mohonkpreserve.org/camping

MP members will need to enter a code when registering, so as to get the rate as members. See above.

I did a test registration and the window for promo code comes up once you enter Name/Email during registration.
Nick Goldsmith · · Pomfret VT · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 440

Pretty simple. if the lot looks full you cook in front of your van. not beside it. It ain't rocket science. not worth getting your pantys all bunched up over.

Happiegrrrl · · Gunks · Joined Dec 2005 · Points: 60

It shouldn't be rocket science, Nick, but for many people, the cook in front of their van instead of beside it doesn't seem to come to mind.

I am not talking about people squatting over a Whisperlight, but folding table set-ups, camp chairs and yard-saled bins of cooking gear and food. And, I did mention this is occurring(or was, as of last autumn) not at 7am, but right up to the lot becoming to the "Full" stage when a sign goes up on the post on 44/55.

The TA's generally cannot see what the lot situation is like but for the very near proximity to the booth. They aren't able to close down and go ask people to please remove their space from the second site. Since the majority of people DO like to park closer to the connector trail, when they notice many cars turned around and coming back towards the front to look for a space(and can see the spaces are getting few there), they have to assume space is used up. The sign goes up and MP members are told they can drive through ad see if there's a spot. Day Pass people have it tougher, though they are accommodated as best possible.

MOST people are NOT going to stop and ask someone to remove their stuff from the extra space(I would, but I am not like most people). It should not be ON the person who is being put out to remind the putter-outer that they are being selfish and unaware.

Yes, it gets me peeved, to see this inconsiderate behavior. Just as inconsiderate behavior in general peeves me. Also, I take offense to the attempt at diminishing my point with the "panties in a bunch" remark and disregarding the fact that I specifically wrote that people were doing the when the lot was alreadt coming to capacity.

losbill · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 130

Terri you are way, way, way too nice.

Here's how I might have handled it.

Hey Nick, for someone who hasn't climbed at the Gunks in 15 years you certainly seem to have a lot to say about the situation. Why don't you leave it to the better informed and more invested in the area individuals who do actually currently climb there.

Please just butt out. But as you do please be very, very careful since we certainly wouldn't want you to get your "panties in a bunch" as you do so.

Just for the record Terri is an individual who has made significant and ongoing contributions to quality of the climbing experience in the Gunks.

BTW is the rumor true that the panties up there are wool and red-and-black plaid? Seems that they might be a bit on the itchy side.

Bill Neacy

Bill Kirby · · Keene New York · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 480

I am a lion! Hear me roar!! Meow..

Nick Goldsmith · · Pomfret VT · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 440

I spent a good bit of time there in the eightys. When I was there 2000 ish it was like a full blown city mob scean. (why I have not been back) Happies rant did not sound very happy and seemed to be of the grumpy looking down the nose at van campers variety . BTW the whole point of van camping is to ditch the wisper light and go with the two burner coleman, folding chairs,coolers, guitars, fiddels and mandolins. Now I could understand the ire if they had a banjo and an acordian in the mix! The scolding over the rather late breakfast also struck a wrong note with me. I love sleeping in when van camping;)

a late breakfast

alpine start car camping style :)

dinner

after dinner

stealth camping spot

Happiegrrrl · · Gunks · Joined Dec 2005 · Points: 60

I think I said upthread that I live out of my van half the year. So I pretty much have the van-living thing down. The difference in our perspectives might be that I don't expect the environment I am in to bend to my desires, nor do I try to get over in a way that thumbs my nose at those who have to deal with those doing the thumbing. I try to either fit in or be inconspicuous when I don't necessarily fit in.

We each have our own ways, and I am not suggesting, Nick, that you would be a person who would find luxury in having their breakfast in a dusty, high-traffic parking lot with people slamming doors, then remembering they forgot their water, and then their that or that, slamming and electric-key locking the door each time.... but for those who do seem to - just have the smallest iota of awareness about it before it comes time that people are annoyed that you are taking up space that others can use.

Again - the parking lots can fill to capacity fairly early in the morning, and it shouldn't be that difficult to put ourselves in the position of others Would WE want to drive through the lot, seeing no space, no space, half a space wasted where the person parked diagonally, no space, half a space wasted because someone parked half a car width from the next, no space no space and then a group their camp set up next door, then no space, no space....?

rgold · · Poughkeepsie, NY · Joined Feb 2008 · Points: 526

I am totally with Happy on this---the person with the bunched underwear is Nick in this case, who says he would never hog spaces but is mighty defensive---about what exactly?

People who hog more than one space in a crowded lot are being inconsiderate assholes, and, as far as I'm concerned, fully deserve to be ejected with all their dining and lounging paraphenalia. This is about common decency, and when you conspicuously flaunt your lack of it---and that after violating Preserve rules by staying overnight to begin with---you fully deserve to continue your life of lounging and indolence at some far-away mall parking lot.

Nick Goldsmith · · Pomfret VT · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 440

Hogging spaces is not what I am about. I would be the first person to make my space smaller so someone else could fit in if it was that busy. I asked where there was legal van camping and I got a rather holier than thou rant about car campers. I work my ass off and when i do get to get on the road I prefer to relax and unwind. My climbing goals are usually pretty casual. get out there and enjoy the cliff but not looking to break any marathon records. getting rousted by cops in the middle of the night would not be relaxing in my book, neither would being accosted by the etiquette police for haveing a late breakfast. I like to camp in legal spots. I don't mind paying a reasonable fee. Hanging out arround your vehicle socalizeing is a fairly solid climbing tradition so yes that anti car camper rant struck a chord with me.

the fact that you can't hang out by your van in the parking lot without pissing a bunch of people off is just one of the reasons i have not been there in so long. Worrying about haveing stuff stolen, no reasonable place to park overnight, haveing to buy a day pass for rather steep change and a general city atmosphere have kept me away. Heck, I rarely go to Rumny and its only 50 miles from my cabin and you don't have to worry about getting robbed. I do have many very fond memories of the good old days at the gunks. And then the one of haveing my rack stolen in 86 put a damper on the whole experience. the last few times I was there was 99-2000ish. Great climbing as always but filthy multi use area and a mob scene at the cliffs and nervous the whole time about getting robbed again. On one of those trips I did crash in the lot by the visitor center and remember chatting with the ranger and eveything being totally cool. it must have been a weekday as the lot was not full. Aparently that is no longer allowed? which brings me back to my question. Is there legal casual car camping in the area?

Kevin Heckeler · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 1,616
Nick Goldsmith wrote:... neither would being accosted by the etiquette police for haveing a late breakfast... the fact that you can't hang out by your van in the parking lot without pissing a bunch of people off is just one of the reasons i have not been there in so long...
How big of a breakfast is this that it requires someone to say something to you about your use of space necessary to accomplish said breakfast?

If you aren't doing anything wrong as a matter of principle, why so worried about being 'accosted'?
M Mobley · · Bar Harbor, ME · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 911
Kevin Heckeler wrote: How big of a breakfast is this that it requires someone to say something to you about your use of space necessary to accomplish said breakfast? If you aren't doing anything wrong as a matter of principle, why so worried about being 'accosted'?
he is so worried about getting robbed he put copyrights in all of his pics above, maybe he is just always on edge?
Nick Goldsmith · · Pomfret VT · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 440

Met up with friends at the base of Directissima. Tim led the 1st pitch so we used his rack. by the time we got back to our packs they had been cleaned out. My entire rack stolen. there were occasional smash and grabs in parking allong the road. last time I was there folks were talking about a smash and grab.

I have much more relaxing time here. Great cheap camping, nice mellow vibe, never seen any window glass in the parking areas and none of that NYC hectic attitude.

As far as the photos go it's one of my two jobs. I water mark everything that goes up on the internet.

seneca

view from our $12.00 a night campsight

even had free firewood.

The climbing was pretty good as well;)

The hospitality was great and no one scolded us for getting late starts, chilling in our lawn chairs and cooking elaborate meals on a fancy two burner stove.

Kevin Heckeler · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 1,616

Seneca I presume (nm - I see you labeled the first one). If I lived closer I'm sure I'd climb there. Since most of us live (much) closer to New Paltz, we have to deal with the very occasional issues/inconveniences. At least we can read/write and aren't all related. [oh shit, no he didn't!]

So your reply is to try and dismiss the Gunks scene as riff-raff to justify doing what you want, when you want, how you want? Not sure I follow.

All things being equal, I'd rather live and climb here. Anything less is a compromise IMHO:



Funny how that photo, as amazing as it is, aint watermarked. They must not be 'professionals'. ;)
Nick Goldsmith · · Pomfret VT · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 440

Its a great shot. If it is professional they probobly have a struggle as most professional photographers do these days staying afloat and their work gets stolen regularly.
Never said you guys were riff raff. I did say you are a bunch of up tight hectic New Yorkers;) Rumny is a bunch of hectic Bostonians but at least there is no stealing. Also never said that I do whatever I want. What I like to do is relax and climb in a mellow enviornment. I did ask if there was any place @ the gunks where this was allowed. I got an uptight snooty response. Aparently not.........

Happiegrrrl · · Gunks · Joined Dec 2005 · Points: 60
Nick Goldsmith wrote:I asked where there was legal van camping and I got a rather holier than thou rant about car campers.
Actually, you received an answer to your question from someone the post following yours.

I was going to send you a private message, and had even written quite a lengthy one, but then I thought "I don't know this person. I have no guarantee that he will not copy/paste, or even screenshot, this message and post it.

Instead I went back to the thread and saw that you had gotten the answer to your question, despite it perhaps not being as clear as you might like, and another question about Walmart.

I answered the question about W/M.

I apologize if you felt I was accusing you of being the type of person who would be the ass that I described. That was not my intent. My intent was to point out, in general to those who might have stake in the topic, that the behavior described was an issue that would likely have to be addressed if it did not stop. On an aside - I have no doubt it will be even worse this season, as people balk against the campground. For those considering such protest(again, not speaking to you specifically, Nick) - Does anyone not realize that the result of such behavior could eventually be rangers being required to close/lock the gate an hour after sunset, and reopen them at sunrise?

The MP is much more relaxed than people give it credit for. Much more. But when you have people who "need rules" in order to behave decently, there will, unfortunately, be rules.
Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65

Nick, no one is talking about mellowing out and hanging by your van.
They are talking about taking up a second spot next to your van with an extensive breakfast set-up in a lot that can go from sparse and looking empty to almost full in the space of 5-10 minutes.

Bill Kirby · · Keene New York · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 480
Marc801 wrote:Nick, no one is talking about mellowing out and hanging by your van. They are talking about taking up a second spot next to your van with an extensive breakfast set-up in a lot that can go from sparse and looking empty to almost full in the space of 5-10 minutes.
Nick's started by asking for a spot to park his van overnight. Everyone else is bitching and moaning about shit Nicks not even doing, taking sides, beating their chest and name calling!

Dude where's my car comes to mind.. What does mine say? Sweet! What does mine say? dude!

I know, I know butt out.
Kevin Heckeler · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 1,616

Nick's answers are inconsistent. He worries he's going to be harassed for not being a good camper after having been told what is considered good etiquette, then says he already practices it? Me thinks Nick worries too much, is lying, and/or has preconceived notions on something he knows little about (Gunks camping).

The bottom line, as already explained, is that stealth camping at the trapps parking is likely coming to an abrupt end so much of this conversation is dead on arrival. No need to worry about taking up two spots, you won't even be taking up one until you arrive the next morning with everyone else.

Kevin Heckeler · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 1,616
Nick Goldsmith wrote:Its a great shot. If it is professional they probobly have a struggle as most professional photographers do these days staying afloat and their work gets stolen regularly.
I can assure you the photos you posted in this thread are in no danger of being stolen or used without permission.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Northeastern States
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