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Is it a FA if?

rocknice2 · · Montreal, QC · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 3,847

You can call it 'I Got Shot by the Sheriff'

Mike · · Phoenix · Joined May 2006 · Points: 2,615

IMHO yes it is an FA. However if you don't free it then someone else could get the FFA.

There is no cheating in climbing, only lying!

Edited to add: I don't ice climb (too cold) so I am probably wrong.

Macwood Fleet · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2015 · Points: 40
This post violated Rule #1. It has been removed by Mountain Project.
sarcasm · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2010 · Points: 445
Macwood Fleet wrote:If you feel like you have to ask, it's not. Roadside ice- weak! Freedom of speech , admins, freedom of speech! I'm NOT being a jerk like some of your boys here, just stating my opinion.
Frankly, I agree with him.
Micah Klesick · · Charlotte, NC · Joined Aug 2013 · Points: 3,971

Quote "Not that complicated. First ascent is the first person to person to lead it. Top rope all you want first. Now top rope only as a first ascent - that's hilarious. Cmon guys this hasn't really even been debatable for decades. "

hmmmm not exactly... "First Ascent" is exactly that... The first person to ascend the route (Ice or rock) from bottom to top, by any means. Including Aid, TR and any other "non-free" methods. Most climbers these days don't care much about the FA because they are simply doing the FA (TR or Aid) to work on getting the FFA, so once the FFA is done, the route is listed as having a FFA.
First Free Ascent is defined as the route being climbed without weighting rope, or pulling on gear to get to the top. It doesn't matter if you had preplaced gear, TR'd the hell out of it, or flashed it. It's still a FFA.
So it's really up to you how you want to FFA your line, and what method you would feel would make the line prouder and just be honest about the method.

Just Solo · · Colorado Springs · Joined Nov 2003 · Points: 80

What Micah said... Also, if you get to name it, you get the FA. Where I think more debate comes into play is grading the route. If the FA is a TR then then the actual grade will seem different than on lead. Thus, a consensus grade must be relied upon.

Macwood Fleet · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2015 · Points: 40
This post violated Rule #1. It has been removed by Mountain Project.
Tom Sherman · · Austin, TX · Joined Feb 2013 · Points: 433
Nico C wrote:If you must spray wait until until you've interviewed lots of locals and especially older resident hardmen to effectively rule out the likelihood of previous sends. Easy to brag about a FA only to find out that it's been soloed way back when by someone with heavier tools and bigger balls than you.
Nico you overthought the hell out of this. I just wanted to think out loud/ inquire and was using my particular future goal as example. Wasn't about to write a guidebook for a roadcut or put a plaque in that said TS has henceforth claimed FA.

Padraig and others. Thank you for that comment, good food for thought. I usually always climb the easiest line on a route, which may say something about myself and confidence/ competence as a leader. But it is interesting to think about how that attitude and other particulars of a climb, i.e. Climbing the easiest of a particular route vs. climbing in particularly desirable conditions (natural) vs. climbing in a less than idyllic style (in this example: easier conditions from working route) are factors into the feat that is a FA.

So you could say climbing the weakness of a route is bad form, or waiting for a WI4 to fatten at the base become a WI3 is bad form, or resting on gear is bad form. Hell you can say that getting a good night's sleep, choosing a nice sunny day, and having a coffee in the morning is bad form. (stretching it here) But what it's really about is what you did at the end of the day, which you will know in your head.

And for others, I had heard of TR only climbs, but hadn't heard that TR a line was a FA, makes sense. Even more so on rock, where a climber while maybe not on the sharp end, still has to put the pieces together to get up the wall.

Anyway, drove by the cut last night on my way to hockey, hasn't fattened at all in the last couple days, and the line I want is completely bare, this is gonna be a goal for the future.

FLEETMAC can you tell us a little more about your inflatable boat? Brand, does it fit in the back of a '94 contour?
Macwood Fleet · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2015 · Points: 40
This post violated Rule #1. It has been removed by Mountain Project.
Tom Sherman · · Austin, TX · Joined Feb 2013 · Points: 433
Jake Jones wrote:Don't you already have a thread for your stupid lookatmei'msognargnargnarchufftastic adventure spray?
hahaha, that was invitational thread-drift trolling

let me see if I can find photos of my inflatable boat...

EDIT: better not ^^^^^^^ someone came through and cleaned it out
Tom Sherman · · Austin, TX · Joined Feb 2013 · Points: 433
Jake Jones wrote: Yeah, but Tom, it's your thread. You started it, so if you wanted to change course, go ahead. It's rude to do it (hence my earlier apology, although my comments were somewhat related) to someone else's thread, and she is notorious for that and her accounts keep getting deleted as a result. She's on about her 50th profile now.
Yeah I know the game, I was baiting just as well...
Just Solo · · Colorado Springs · Joined Nov 2003 · Points: 80
Tom Sherman wrote: Nico you overthought the hell out of this. I just wanted to think out loud/ inquire and was using my particular future goal as example. Wasn't about to write a guidebook for a roadcut or put a plaque in that said TS has henceforth claimed FA. Padraig and others. Thank you for that comment, good food for thought. I usually always climb the easiest line on a route, which may say something about myself and confidence/ competence as a leader. But it is interesting to think about how that attitude and other particulars of a climb, i.e. Climbing the easiest of a particular route vs. climbing in particularly desirable conditions (natural) vs. climbing in a less than idyllic style (in this example: easier conditions from working route) are factors into the feat that is a FA. So you could say climbing the weakness of a route is bad form, or waiting for a WI4 to fatten at the base become a WI3 is bad form, or resting on gear is bad form. Hell you can say that getting a good night's sleep, choosing a nice sunny day, and having a coffee in the morning is bad form. (stretching it here) But what it's really about is what you did at the end of the day, which you will know in your head. And for others, I had heard of TR only climbs, but hadn't heard that TR a line was a FA, makes sense. Even more so on rock, where a climber while maybe not on the sharp end, still has to put the pieces together to get up the wall. Anyway, drove by the cut last night on my way to hockey, hasn't fattened at all in the last couple days, and the line I want is completely bare, this is gonna be a goal for the future. FLEETMAC can you tell us a little more about your inflatable boat? Brand, does it fit in the back of a '94 contour?
Tom, it isn't bad form to climb an easier line, especially if that is where your skill level is. Frankly, that is GOOD form IMO. Climb your skill level on lead. Push your limits on TR. That is good form. To the first ascent discussion, it's all in the telling of the story. Keep it real, explain how it was ascended, and don't brag, that is bad form.

To be honest, I doubt a super easy access roadside climb hasn't been done before. Usually, only crazy sick lines, or stupid approaches result in a first ascent these days. Speaking of which, did ya'all see Gadd climbing Niagra? Now THAT, is a first ascent.
Bill Kirby · · Keene New York · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 480
Roadcutting

Tom, here's a picture of a road cut that's been done the last 20 years and it's close. Pick a good name if you make it happen. About style, I would rather climb a hard easy route than an easy hard route. Virgins are where it's at. Don't take the route that everyone's picked at and kicked.
Anonymous · · Unknown Hometown · Joined unknown · Points: 0

Isn't every ice climb an FA? The ice is going to be different every time it gets climbed right?

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Ice Climbing
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