Mountain Project Logo

caving and canyoneering?

Original Post
Nate K · · Bozeman, MT · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 240

just wondering how much overlab there is beteween climbing and caving and canyoneering. could an experienced climber go out and do these things at a high level right off the bat or is there additional stuff thats important to know?

matt c. · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 155

I just recently started canyoneering after trad climbing for a few years. So I can tell you my experience.

I found there is a lot of overlap and the rope skill you learned in climbing really make learning canyoneering techniques easy. However, canyoneering has a lot of techniques that are pretty specific. These include contingency anchors, ghosting anchors, ascending efficiently and swift water practices while rappelling. These skills take some time to learn.

The swift water canyons are particularly dangerous and even experienced canyoneers die in them every year. Its smart to be well schooled in what to do to keep out of danger and know how to get someone out of a shit situation quickly. One of my first swift water canyons, I made the huge mistake of having too much rope in the pool after the rapple and I had to swift 15 feet of white water tangled in rope. Also, it is important to know that ropes sink. I had to discover this empirically. Also, not fun.

However, there are a lot of canyons a competent trad climber could do without any prior experience. Look for the class A and B canyons.

Jason Todd · · Cody, WY · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 1,114

An experienced climber will do fine at a "high level" of caving. Depending on the cave, you can expect a lot of talus type scrambling and plenty of crawling/squeezing in passages of every orientation. Ropework is mostly rappelling and jugging (learn the Frog!).

Things to keep in mind:
-Access issues. All caves on FS land and some others have seasonal closures for bats. Decontamination procedures. Permits/keys....
-Dust mask. Seriously. You don't want to be breathing that radioactive hystoplasmosis infested dust in the crawls.
-Heavier lid. Don't be using your Petzl Meteor for a caving helmet.
-Knee pads. Anything will work. I used skate pads for years.
-Piss bottle. LNT bro.
-Pack. I like to use a briefcase shaped bag with a single strap. It seems like you are always fuckin with the pack and this makes it easy to push, pull, throw, move side to side. Again and again.
-Eye drops feel good. Remember the dust mask.
-Jolly Ranchers. The water seems to run low every trip and the JR's are killer for tricking your thirst.
-Cavers take themselves way more serious than climbers. Crazy, I know.

Most importantly:
-Know how to navigate using the compass you brought.

Have fun.

Magpie79 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2011 · Points: 0
Jason Todd wrote:An experienced climber will do fine at a "high level" of caving. Depending on the cave, you can expect a lot of talus type scrambling and plenty of crawling/squeezing in passages of every orientation. Ropework is mostly rappelling and jugging (learn the Frog!). Things to keep in mind: -Access issues. All caves on FS land and some others have seasonal closures for bats. Decontamination procedures. Permits/keys.... -Dust mask. Seriously. You don't want to be breathing that radioactive hystoplasmosis infested dust in the crawls. -Heavier lid. Don't be using your Petzl Meteor for a caving helmet. -Knee pads. Anything will work. I used skate pads for years. -Piss bottle. LNT bro. -Pack. I like to use a briefcase shaped bag with a single strap. It seems like you are always fuckin with the pack and this makes it easy to push, pull, throw, move side to side. Again and again. -Eye drops feel good. Remember the dust mask. -Jolly Ranchers. The water seems to run low every trip and the JR's are killer for tricking your thirst. -Cavers take themselves way more serious than climbers. Crazy, I know. Most importantly: -Know how to navigate using the compass you brought. Have fun.
Agreed. I would also add that it is a different environment. Everyone is claustrophobic to some degree (think not? Get buried alive in a coffin), so it is good to find out where you are on the spectrum. Claustrophobia can hit even experienced cavers, and when it hits me, I start babbling like an idiot or I sing Monty Python songs. Not pretty. Not pretty at all.
Bryan Ferguson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2008 · Points: 635

A lot of climbers take up canyoneering and the transference of skills is very easy (not including wet canyons). The most important new knowledge that climbers don't have is a knowledge of retrievable anchors. Retrievable anchors prevent the grooving associated with pulling ropes the way climbers do. This is of particular concern in soft sandstone typical of the Colorado Plateau - Moab, Arches, Canyonlands, San Rafael Swell, etc. Pulling ropes the way climbers do can create a groove tens of feet long and maybe a 1/2 deep in a single pull. There is enough concern on the part of the Arches staff to list grooving as a specific impact of canyoneering. PM me if you are interested in a resource on retrievable anchors. They are cool, fun and safe!

Eric Klammer · · Eagle, CO · Joined Oct 2012 · Points: 2,070

I've found that canyon anchors can be a little bit of a shock when starting out from a climbing background. Do not expect 2 or 3 bomber equalized pieces for each rappel (although there are canyons where this is the case) but instead anything from a small slung chock stone to a stack of rocks to your partner's body weight to whatever you're able to come up with!

As others have said though, many skills will transfer over and once your SRT (blocking, ascending..) are dialed you should be well on your way. Ghosting, pothole escape, class C, contingency anchors, etc are all other great skills to pile on with time. Canyoneering has been one the most fun sports I've tried, enjoy and be safe!

Bryan Ferguson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2008 · Points: 635

Canyoneering does not share much of anything with climbing beyond the approach, rope and rappelling. Bolts are popping up next to or nearby natural anchors (natural anchors often judged to be unsafe or not even identified as anchors by climbers) such as meat anchors, chock stones, tiny arches (as small as two or three inches high/wide) and twigs. This is to the detriment to the sport. Hiking is just hiking, rappelling is just rappelling. The charm of canyoneering is neither of those. It the ghosting and creative anchor building that makes it interesting. Oh, and the truly awesome places you get to go to. I hope my point is well taken - don't be careless with canyoneering. It's too damn good. It's not a substitute nor a replacement for climbing. It's different.

Nate K · · Bozeman, MT · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 240

Thanks for the informations guys, i guess i should buy some books on techniques before starting

Adam Byrd · · Boulder, CO · Joined Oct 2013 · Points: 242

Nate K,
Regarding caving I agree with most of what Jason Todd said above. Radioactive dust and histoplasmosis (fungal infection, symptoms similar to tuberculosis, associated with exposure to lots of bat guano) are out there, but are not exactly common. All of the several radioactive caves I know about are in MT/WY, yet there are many caves where radiation is not a concern.

Physically, caving mostly requires endurance. You may find the biggest hurdle to caving at any level is finding out where heck the caves actually are - there's no equivalent of mountain project in the caving world. Your best bet is befriending people in a caving club, a.k.a. a grotto. The Northern Rocky Mountain Grotto has members in Bozeman that are both friendly and world-class cavers. Contact info for NRMG is at nssio.org/find_grotto_detai…

The National Speleological Society has a free Guide to Responsible Caving aimed at the general public here: caves.org/brochure/NSS%20Gu…

gcooksey · · Marietta, Ga · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 15

I can only speak for caving and I find there is some overlap in technique between single rope technique and climbing but the gear is different since caves are abrasive, muddy and wet. In my opinion, the best thing to do would be to go to a local grotto meeting if your curious. Also, On rope by paget and smith is a great reference for srt in caves.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Other Sports
Post a Reply to "caving and canyoneering?"

Log In to Reply

Join the Community

Create your FREE account today!
Already have an account? Login to close this notice.

Get Started.