What Nobody is Saying About the Dawn Wall

Did you seriously post a link to your own blog and call it 'an interesting thought? That's funny. And kinda sad.

As for the pink point vs red piont discussion, Don't forget most of this route follows an existing aid route (mescalito). On the crux, they are clipping multiple BEAKS AND HEADS in a row. You don't climb a 14d pitch bashing in heads as you go. It's impossible. Hence the pre-placed gear. They are climbing 14+ while whipping on BEAKS. If you don't know what those are, look it up.

One photographer up there with them (Brett) is not a 'full camera crew". Far from it.

Oh, and the Appalachain trail analogy is hysterical. You clearly have a very limited understanding of this kind of climbing.

Carry on.

"If anyone else were pinkpointing, toproping, rehearsing in the Valley, they would be blackballed (ex: Skinner/Piana)"

Thanks for your input, 1982.

I got one thing from the blog. The author is a douche.

I won't pee in his shoes if I ever run into him but maybe someone else should.

nicelegs wrote:I got one thing from the blog. The author is a douche. I won't pee in his shoes if I ever run into him but maybe someone else should.

It wasnt a terrible read and it was just an opinion no matter how douchy it was the way he threw it at us.

Any way you look at it those guys up there are kicking some serious ass.

ON ANOTHER NOTE------> Which one of you "traddies" want to bet they use a gri-gri at every single belay? YEAH ONLY SPORTOS USE GRIGRIS

Rob Dillon wrote:"If anyone else were pinkpointing, toproping, rehearsing in the Valley, they would be blackballed (ex: Skinner/Piana)" Thanks for your input, 1982.

LOL!

Three thoughts:

• Agree with Jon above - maybe someone will come do it faster and better, but that has not been done yet. Each step is a step towards something more amazing, so this is the step/climb we got to follow.
• There are probably people "adventuring" without the media circus and social media as we speak. But we wouldn't know about it.
• I think their doing it this way adds to the fun for us, and pressure for them. The whole (climbing world) is watching. Will they make it or not? Sometimes I like to secretly do things (like when I ran a marathon) because I didn't know whether I would succeed or fail, and would only tell people if I succeeded.

Thanks reboot, at first I didn't realize it was the OP saying, "Check out this interesting viewpoint" (that I wrote myself).

What was the ethic used on the first ascent of El Cap again? Most of us celebrate that achievement while realizing the style had room to evolve.

I see this siege-style effort as a way to cement the route into a single thing, rather than as discrete pitches to be red-pointed (or the much derogated pink-point, as the case may be) ad hoc. Perhaps my thinking is off, I really don't know the big wall playbook.

The question is what is adventure? The OP seems to fashion this example a little bluntly towards his uses if that question is the sole intent. A lot of the examples seem to reduce the particulars of this undertaking to make their point, and therefore wind up looking a little a bit silly.

Is this adventure like going to the moon (where astronauts also had ground support), or is it adventure in the sense of strongly pushing the difficulty of our craft forward? What's pretty fucking cool in its own right is when millions are cheering a couple of guys towards a goal like this; not one team of players against another, soldiers against soldiers, but the vision and talent of our own kind in an affirmation of human spirit.

Colonel Mustard wrote:What was the FA ethic used on the first ascent of El Cap again? Most of us celebrate that achievement while realizing the style had room to evolve. I see this siege effort as a way to cement the route into a single thing, rather than as discrete pitches to be red-pointed (or the derogated pink-point, as the case may be) ad hoc. Perhaps my thinking is off, I really don't know the big wall playbook. The question is what is adventure? The OP seems to fashion this example a little bluntly towards his uses if that question is the sole intent. A lot of the examples seem to reduce the particulars of this undertaking to make their point, and therefore wind up looking a little a bit silly. Is this adventure like going to the moon (where astronauts also had ground support), or is it in adventure in strongly pushing the difficulty of our craft forward? What's pretty fucking cool in its own right is when millions are cheering a couple of guys towards a goal like this; not one team of players against another, soldiers against soldiers, but the vision and talent of our own kind in an affirmation of human spirit.

TL;DR

Yeah, I could do what they're doing......but I don't think there's enough "adventure" in it.....

Yvon Chouinard, in the movie '180 degrees south', said that the word 'adventure' is over used nowadays and that he really only considers something an adventure when everything planned goes wrong. That was an interesting tid bit to think about.

Climbing friends,

I do no like the coverages of the media of this climbing of the dawn wall. I think there is too much hype, as this is a thing really not so difficult. I go to Yosemite 3 years past and make enjoyable flash of most of these pitches.

To elaborate on Malcom's reply, every generation advances standards by finding ways around the restrictions previous generations imposed on themselves. This is typically the only way to make progress, since the previous generation is usually good enough to do almost everything that can be done with the restrictions they've embraced.

Naturally, the previous generations cry foul, usually forgetting the sacred principles they trashed on their way to glory. I think these protestations serve a critical function, because climbing has always been about the voluntary renunciation of available means, and the braking effect of the old guys clucking from their rockers keeps the activity from losing track of its essence as it strives to redefine itself yet again.

The unknown in modern sport climbing (which pretty much includes high-difficulty modern trad climbing as a subdiscipline rather than a separate genre) is whether the climber can succeed at moves so marginal for the very best as to be never guaranteed, even after much rehearsal. This is a lot like modern gymnastics, in which the audience holds its collective breath while competitors try to get through routines practiced for years. And although there are no judges scoring the performance, it may be that the presence of an audience is an essential ingredient in such undertakings, if for no other reason than the immense spiritual capital invested by the participants requires the support and appreciation of more than one or two observers.

So with Malcom I'd say it is what it is. It isn't necessary to let it be, however, as it is the older generation's job to proclaim the End of Days if things go on as they are. And indeed, the days of environmental uncertainty are fading, although not yet gone, as the level and availability of information about climbs rises. It may not be long before parties in remote locations are able to scout the minute details of their proposed routes by flying drones up the route. More and more, the adventure will reside not in confronting an unknown environment, but in accomplishing what is actually intimately known and yet still extremely difficult. And as time goes on, this will filter down to all levels of climbing, as it already has in sport climbing.

spencerparkin wrote:I care about what climbing celebrities do only so far as they're 1) not dying and 2) maintaining access for the rest of us. That said, I think some people take climbing too seriously. Climbing is not the end-all, be-all of life. (I suppose, however, that this must be the case if you're visiting a website with the subtitle, "For the purists, dirtbags, and salty oldtimers who live climbing.") What you climbed in this life won't matter in the here-after, (if you believe in that sort of thing.) If you don't, then I suppose climbing may actually be the most important thing in this life. But otherwise, it just doesn't matter.

There will be no having of the hereafter, as it does no exist, so yes, glorious flashing of many hard route is the most important thing.

Aleks Zebastian wrote: There will be no having of the hereafter, as it does no exist, so yes, glorious flashing of many hard route is the most important thing.

The hereafter would be like a redpoint, so there is no hereafter, only the flash climbing friend

Mark Lewis wrote:Yvon Chouinard, in the movie '180 degrees south', said that the word 'adventure' is over used nowadays and that he really only considers something an adventure when everything planned goes wrong. That was an interesting tid bit to think about.

He is also quoted in that movie as saying that adventures are all about the journey and not the destination. Regarding this Dawn Wall project, you could apply that in two ways I suppose. One way to interpret is that these two guys are enjoying their journey so who else should care how they choose to reach the destination. Or, another way to interpret is that they are choosing the wrong way to approach their journey. I believe in To Each His Own, so I have to go with the former interpretation. Who cares if they rehearse pitches on TR before RP'ing, they arent affecting future climbers enjoyment of their own journey unless people let it affect them.

Tommy and Kevin are going to feel silly when Alex free solos it in three hours next spring.

Okay, so, people will probably claim that I am only doing this to get this inane post back up on the homepage. As someone else mentioned before in the comments, "haters gonna hate".

I am writing this not to popularize my previous post, or to whore out my site, or whatever else people might accuse me of. I am writing this to try and give an explanation, and a context, to the article I wrote about the Dawn Wall. Take it or leave it, MP. It's all good to me.

fringesfolly.com/2015/01/06…

Chris Kalman wrote:Okay, so, people will probably claim that I am only doing this to get this inane post back up on the homepage. As someone else mentioned before in the comments, "haters gonna hate". I am writing this not to popularize my previous post, or to whore out my site, or whatever else people might accuse me of. I am writing this to try and give an explanation, and a context, to the article I wrote about the Dawn Wall. Take it or leave it, MP. It's all good to me. fringesfolly.com/2015/01/06…

Right, it's not like you also pimped your shit on climbing.com

Chris - 01/05/2015 10:36:37 wrote:"Interesting to see what lengths the climbing media will go to to document this send. What does it mean about climbing today? Interesting thoughts on that at fringesfolly.com/2015/01/05…

And I imagine any other climbing related media you could think of. All without ever mentioning that you're the author of the article...

Interesting to see what lengths the exposure whores will go to to promote their writing/blog/opinion, regardless of their vehement denial. Clik bait is clik bait, even the title of your piece gives it away.

youtube.com/watch?v=vjmBQZN…

Chris Kalman wrote:I am writing this not to popularize my previous post, or to whore out my site, or whatever else people might accuse me of.

Except that is what you do. There was a discussion going on this you could have added to, but you just made a new post to pimp your link without saying it was yours. You did the same thing when Honnold and others got the boot from Clif Bar. There was a thread going, but you started a new one to again present a "good article" without mentioning you were its author. When someone immediately pointed out the existing discussion, you just added your "interesting article" link there too.

It rubs me the wrong way. The new topics show you either aren't interested enough in these forums to see that a discussion on the topic is already underway, or you think your views merit a new thread so they aren't lost in the ongoing discussion. In any case presenting your blog without attribution (yet still giving it props!) is disingenuous.

You don't seem to want to participate in this community, but to use it as a launch pad for yourself.