Anyone fall on an ice screw on lead?

I have taken 2 leader falls while ice climbing. The following fall was my first.

Many years ago, Bryan MacDonald and I went off to Connecticut's Black Rock Dam on a cold winter day. Bryan and i picked a thin, unnamed line - unnamed, or so we believed, although it got a name that day - in a small alcove on the left end of the dam's ragged spillway cliff. I led the line.

With tools on top of the small "over flow" at the top of the route, and with 4 or 6 screws in to that point, i banged in my final piece - a 6" Snarg - in a lump of ice that was frozen to the cliff face. The lump of ice was about the size of a large breast. As i started to step up to top out, my left tool (a Lowe Big Bird) popped out. Suddenly off balance, my feet (Foot Fangs) cut loose, and hanging from just one tool now, i rotated slowly to my right, on my remaining tool, until it rotated out of its thin purchase and popped out too. Off i went, screaming like a banshee. I was sure that every piece that i had in would pull, and that i was going to "zipper" to the ground.

I fell about 15 feet, and the top piece held.

I swung, upside down, into the cliff, and banged the top of my head (helmet, thank you) and the top of my left shoulder (shoulder sprain, thanks again). Completely stunned - both of us - Bryan lowered me to the ground. As I lay on the frozen floor of the spillway, unsure of my injuries, a slow procession of curious folk who had been climbing nearby came 'round the corner to see what the awful scream had been all about. in ones and twos, they casually peered at us and, as i was alive and we weren't asking for help, silently went back to their climbing.

I soon went back to a more fulfilling climbing life in Colorado. A number of years later, I heard some talk about a line on the left end of the Black Rock Dam ice climbing area ... it was called "Primal Scream." I'd like to say that I had the first ascent ... but I didn't, not quite. But i suspect that i did get that line named after me ...

I have taken 2 leader falls while ice climbing. The following fall was my second.

On a bitterly cold winter weekend, Bruce Dicks, Rusty Reno, Tom Copley and I drove to Vermont's Lake Willoughby for a little high adventure. Bruce and i were intimidated by Willoughby's WI5's, and so we climbed some of the high quality WI4's, ending on the 2 pitch Crazy Diamond.

I led off on the 2nd pitch. At the final pillar, i pounded 2 8" Snargs into the horizontal flow at the base of the pillar, clipped my 9mm "twin" lines to them, and launched up the pillar. I climbed until i reached the top, where i got a reasonably good right "stick" in the top of the flow. i swung and then scratched feverishly with my left tool - a Simond Chacal with a reverse droop pick - but was unable to get a "stick" in the hard ice in the shady top of the flow. As i began to panic, i seemed to hallucinate - the Chacal's pick seemed to wobble as i hit the ice in the top of the flow with it.

After feebly scratching and festering, trying to get a 2nd good "stick" in the top of the flow, i finally pitched off and went for about a 70' fall. Bruce caught me just as i reached his belay position. i hadn't hit a thing ... it was free fall the entire way ... except that i broke a plastic ice axe holster on my harness. I was stunned, but completely uninjured. And both of the screws at the base of the final pillar held.

Rusty, from his position on a WI5 some distance away, had noticed that i seemed to be topping out, and then i was suddenly quite a bit lower on the route. he came over, climbed up to us, finished the route and collected our gear. we retired to our motel room.

When i took my shirt off that evening, Rusty laughed at my stick-insect physique and said, "Crowder, you had no business being on that route today!" But the real cause of my fall? The Chacal's pick was secured to the top of its shaft with a screw and 2 "freeze pins." One of the freeze pins had rusted completely thru while i was leading the Crazy Diamond pillar, and i wasn't hallucinating at the top of the pillar - the pick was wobbling so badly, without that second freeze pin, that i couldn't get a "stick" in the top of the flow with it.

that should be a lesson to all not to buy simond ice tools. the picks have always been inferior. my first simond tools purchased in the mid 90s had both picks bend just by swinging into water ice and never hitting rock. REI gave me a full refund after i had owned them for only a yr.

I was belaying, we were at Malan falls near Ogden Utah. We were pushing that last of 3 or 4 pitches, Leader was about 20 feet from the top. He had a small stubby in a sliver of ice only an inch or an inch and half away from rock. The angle tipped back and as he pulled his feet up on to the shelf the whole top layer just slid right off the wall. He fell about 40 feet, had a slight pendulum, and the stubby held! He dropped a tool which stuck about half way between his high point and the screw. I had my tool and was elected to continue the pitch. Got up to where he peeled, the ice was crystal clear and had a HUGE volume of rushing loud water running underneath and couldn't bring myself to weight it and run the risk of falling through and behind the waterfall. Down climbed, V -thread and bailed.

Took a 5 ft lead on a 16 cm at the ice park. I was using a screamer and double ropes. The screw held fine and the screamer didn't deploy. I shit myself then finished the climb.

I've seen someone take a 15 ft on a screw and the screamer came mostly undone.

150 pitches before leading? My first time ice climbing, Willey's Slide, 1975, my more experienced partner's front-points bent straight down! He says to me, "well, I guess you'll have to lead!" I hadn't lead anything on rock at that point, but we got up it. Glad it was only Grade 2! I haven't taken a substantial leader fall(knock on wooden head!) and don't intend to. Always approach leading an ice climb like you're soloing.

Some thread necromancy as some might find my analysis useful.

I counted 91 ice (not mixed) lead falls from the following sources:

• This thread (updated with responses from 1/17/23)
• https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/106656497/ice-lead-falls
• https://www.facebook.com/groups/574793789393360/posts/1682986001907461/
• http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/2013/02/the-fall.html
• https://ksltv.com/515643/ice-climber-hospitalized-after-falling-40-feet-near-bridal-veil-falls/
• One fall I personally heard of recently

Obviously, these sources have selection bias. So take these numbers with a big grain of salt. I'd speculate that the selection bias favors reporting more injurious falls, since injuries make memorable stories, vs "some guy fell and was ok" is pretty forgettable. On the other hand, Will Gadd says "Note the ratio: about 2:1 for lead falls on ice that resulted in injury versus non-injury", and who am I to question Will Gadd's expertise on ice climbing. 

Anyway the stats are: 

• 63 (69%) OK: No injury or very minor bruises.
• 28 injured:
  • 9 minor injury (sprain, no medical attention needed)
  • 8 moderate injury (broken ankle)
  • 10 bad injuries (multiple broken bones, hospitalization)
  • 1 death
• OK + minor injury = 72/91 = 79%.
• Excluded from the count were 5 falls where the outcome was not reported. (likely no injury or else they would've mentioned it.)

Some trends:

• common causes of falls: bulges, barndoors, matched tools, placing screws ... Stairway to Heaven.  pumping out was rare.
• Most screws held. Screws pulled in at least 8 (9%) cases.
• most falls were on steep terrain, clean falls. the stats for low-angle falls would likely be worse.
• Most falls were not far above a screw, but ~15 were very long falls or decked. Of the long falls:
  • 60% were uninjured,
  • but notably the death was a 50-60' non-ground fall.

If (big if - see selection bias note) the chance of being significantly injured on a lead fall was 1/4 rather than 2/3, that would certainly change my risk calculus. The risk is definitely still high enough to make me climb well under my limit. I would never lead something where I might fall off because the climbing is too hard. But, freak incidents could make me fall off because of something unrelated to the difficulty of the climbing (hit by sluff, giant dinnerplate, etc...) If my risk of major injury in those cases is 1/4 rather than 2/3, it could make the difference in whether leading ice at all is an acceptable risk. 

This is awesome, Ellen.  Thanks!

FWIW (on a tangentially related issue), I've found that, relative to my earlier days (heavier and non-express screws with worse/slower teeth, heavier tools, leashes, etc.), these days I carry more screws and am willing to place them more on lead than 15+ years ago.  That feels like it could both lead to higher fall potential in some cases (more time on route, more time hanging on arms, more time hanging on single tool, etc.) but also maybe lower risk of injury in a fall due to generally shorter fall distances.  Would be hard to get good longitudinal data, I'm sure, but I conjecture that fall frequency in ice climbing may be flat or only slightly higher now, but perhaps fall-related rates of serious injury have gone down over time?  And surely raw number of lead falls on ice is higher recently due to more climbers, but I wonder if rate-per-climber is flat or lower.  Anyhoo, thanks for your analysis!

Well to add to your data from the last 10 years......  

I have taken 1 fall on ice.  It was on a scrappy/rocky top out when a tool popped.  Thankfully it was steep so the fall was clean and I was unhurt.  I was about 12ft above a 13cm screw in good ice and it held.  Total fall with rope stretch was over 30ft.  The hardest part was climbing back up past that spot to finish the climb.  I was only in my 2nd season of leading ice and definitely climbing at max grade.  However I didn't feel pumped and the climb was within my abilities.  However it did mess with my lead head on ice for the next 12 months.

My partner took a lead fall on road cut ice.  The climb was vertical however ice quality wasn't the best.  He fell while trying to place a screw....a foot popped off and he couldn't hold on.  He was about 8ft above his last screw which was a 16cm screw in what I would call decent ice.  The screw held the fall.  He tweaked his back in the fall and weeks later developed a severe eye condition that the doctors think started with the fall.  Other contributing factors to the fall was the fact that we had already been yelled at by a snowplow driver for "trespassing" (which we weren't) and in the first 15 feet of the lead he broke a crampon.  He down climbed and then proceeded to borrow my crampons which he was not familiar with nor used to climbing.  The climb was also an FA, and it was about the only day the ice was in good enough condition to do it, and it was his max lead grade.  So lots of outside pressures.  The Sheriff actually showed up because the snowplow driver called 911.  He was quite nice and actually asked some good questions about climbing.  After watching for a few minutes, he told us to have a fun day and left.

I was belaying a different partner when he took a fall.  He was climbing crappy chandeliered ice on monopoints.  He believes the monopoints ripped through the chandeliers causing his feet to pop off.  He was about 150ft above the belay on skinny twin ropes.  Although he was only about 10 feet above his last screw (a 13cm in decent ice) he fell about 35ft before being caught.  He broke his leg in the fall. He is a very experienced climber and was on the warmup route of the day.  The 13cm screw held the fall.

Partner and I were swapping leads on Malan Falls, Ogden Utah. He drew out for the last pitch, all ice up to that point had been pretty good. He got to the final bulge, ice got thin and one could see thru the clear sheet of ice, the large volume of water flowing beneath. At some point a tool popped, foot blew, other tool popped,  leader fell. He had a Stubai stubby in a small pyramid of ice that was probably only 20 cm deep, clear as an ice cube, no blue hue to it, and you could see the rock below the screw. Leader whipped about 40 feet, screw held bomber. Climber unscathed. 

While climbing in the park  at the school room, a group of climbers next to us were leading a lower angle route, just up stream from us (far left of the wall). The leader had the route sewed up pretty good, runners on every piece. She was about 10 - 20 feet from the top with a screw at her knees, she was pulling up over a bulge. She popped off, screw immediately blew out, she crumpled like a pop can on a small shelf mid route, bounced backward, next screw popped, and she came to rest about 15 feet off the deck, upside down and swearing like a sailor. Obvious ankle deformity and fracture. I ran ambulance at the time as an EMT, and went over to help.  She immediately looked me square in the eyes and said, "Get the #@%! away from me". She and the two others in her party self rescued, and left. 

Ice screws in good is are very good and ice screws in bad ice is no good. I never carry screamers and have taken a fall well over 10 meters / 40 feet and the screw held. The big danger with falling on ice is not ripping out screws in good ice.

More data: I had a partner fall on variable ice and the 13cm screw held. He was uninjured, but probably fell 30ish feet. He spun around and went head first down a lower angle section which prevented flipping and snagging of front points. It probably also helped that the lower angle section had some snow on the ice to soften the impact. He was topping out a very funky rollover.

Something I've done in the past for my own sanity is placing an excessive number of screws in variable ice pitches and then shock loading them with an alpine draw while on TR belay to test their strength. It's pretty amazing how well screws hold. Typically only 10-20% of the screws I expect to fail will actually do so. Often the chunk of ice around them comes off the flow, it's not the screw that actually fails.

caught a lead fall in RMNP a few years back. my partner was probably a few feet above his last screw when he peeled off. screw held, no issues, my partner finished the pitch and we continued climbing. 

Saw a homie fall and break his leg drytooling on bolts at Vail a few years ago. I think the crampons are the real problem with ice falls. Screws placed in reliable ice generally hold fine.

2 falls on lead; one on i believe a climb called Miller's thriller or Finger of Fate in utah, about 30' , slammed into the rock wall below and cracked my helmet

the other was a climb called Linda Ice Nine in Banff(?) about 60'; it was late in the day and we were trying to finish the climb before dark.

My partner had never fallen on me, I was leading, I couldn't find anything solid , so I just buried and equalized my tools and started bringing Chris up

Chris barndoored about 15' above his belay stance, pulled my anchor and off I went. I scrounced into a ball and luckily nothing caught on the way down

I climbed back up, dug around some more, did the best I could, we topped out close to 10 pm, got back to our packs around midnight

My lower back took the brunt, nagged me for days, then when I got home the girlfriend was pissed that had been gone for so long, had all this yard work for me to do, that's when the back finally gave in .

It took me 2 weeks  of laying on my back before I was pain free enough to walk to the the mailbox 100' away

RockinOut wrote: I doubt the pioneer ice climbers had 150 pitches of top rope under their belt before they were doing first ascents of big mountains. 

Just saying, if you only get out a few times a year, 150 pitches seems a ridiculous amount. If you have ice climbing our your back door and really get after it with motivated partners, you might rack up that 150 pitches in a single season. Following a good full season before taking the sharp end isn't bad advice. 

Buddy took a fall on Talisman Simulator. The second pitch was probably 1/3 ice, 2/3 rock. He found himself pulling the last bulge (thin ice / chossy rock) 5-10 ft. above his last screw. Despite taking a tumbling fall, which was probably about 15 ft- with rope stretch, the screw held. He finished the route...scared the shit out of me for the follow. 

Teton Tom wrote:

Just saying, if you only get out a few times a year, 150 pitches seems a ridiculous amount. If you have ice climbing our your back door and really get after it with motivated partners, you might rack up that 150 pitches in a single season. Following a good full season before taking the sharp end isn't bad advice. 

Just a thought, even if you did have ice in your backyard, where are you gonna find someone who wants to put up 150 pitches for you to follow? Seems like it would only work if you're a kid surnamed Lowe who gets to climb with your parents all the time.

Not an issue for anyone who has access to an ice park, but what about people outside CO, or before the ice park was a thing?

Ice just also takes a really long time and involves a lot of faff outside of the actual climbing. You always end up with way fewer pitches than you would expect in what seems like a busy day. My most jam-packed days of ice park TR are ~7 pitches, even with the super easy TR setup. So far I've accumulated 123 pitches after spending *a lot* of time and effort to get myself to the ice park for a total of ~20 days, plus lots and lots of backcountry days that usually only amount to 1-2 pitches in a whole day. I feel like I'm one of the only people who actually did get pretty close to the "100 pitches TR before lead" threshold, but I spent way more time and effort to accomplish that than most people would be willing to do, and I can drive to the ice park which not everyone can. I really did only start to feel ready to lead after ~90 TR pitches though. 

Ellen S wrote:

Just a thought, even if you did have ice in your backyard, where are you gonna find someone who wants to put up 150 pitches for you to follow? 

Yeah, truth is it probably doesn’t work out that way for too many people. I was just agreeing with a comment that it’s not a bad idea if you can make it work.

My learning curve was WAY dangerous!  I was with a few other guys my age ski bumming in Jackson Hole in the 90’s. JH is not a great place to be an ice climber, only a few local routes, and most of those aren’t very kind to beginners. I racked up maybe 20 pitches that first season, leading half of them. I was climbing with straight x-15’s and footfangs, and a light rack of Russian titanium screws.

 But my second season s few of us rented a room in Cody and went up there every weekend. Lots of moderate routes, and not too hard to get in a dozen or so pitches in a weekend. Close to a hundred pitches that second season, and again leading half of them. So lucky I never wrecked myself, wish that I could have mentored under a few more experienced guys, but it never worked out that way…

Oh and BTW, rested on plenty of screws, but never ever fell on one…

Ellen S wrote:

Just a thought, even if you did have ice in your backyard, where are you gonna find someone who wants to put up 150 pitches for you to follow? Seems like it would only work if you're a kid surnamed Lowe who gets to climb with your parents all the time.

Not an issue for anyone who has access to an ice park, but what about people outside CO, or before the ice park was a thing?

Ice just also takes a really long time and involves a lot of faff outside of the actual climbing. You always end up with way fewer pitches than you would expect in what seems like a busy day. My most jam-packed days of ice park TR are ~7 pitches, even with the super easy TR setup. So far I've accumulated 123 pitches after spending *a lot* of time and effort to get myself to the ice park for a total of ~20 days, plus lots and lots of backcountry days that usually only amount to 1-2 pitches in a whole day. I feel like I'm one of the only people who actually did get pretty close to the "100 pitches TR before lead" threshold, but I spent way more time and effort to accomplish that than most people would be willing to do, and I can drive to the ice park which not everyone can. I really did only start to feel ready to lead after ~90 TR pitches though. 

A guide   fair point 150 is a lot; especially if you factor in other life priorities. I estimate I've followed 30-40 pitches in my [limited] year of ice climbing. At this point, feeling comfortable and in control. I still plan to keep it very controlled and no issue backing off if the pucker factor exceeds my comfort. My risk tolerance generally speaking is on the lower end of things. That being said, as I explained to my friend, I now get why so many people solo ice. Am I going to do it? Hell no. Do I plan to start leading? Yup, come February on a return trip to Ouray despite being so far under the  benchmark. 

Somehow found myself at the beginning of the thread and I think Clint Helander had a good point. Neither here nor there, good guy to share a beer with! 150 might be ideal, but it comes down to each individual's confidence level. Probably no shock? What's helped me overcome my fear is mileage with really experienced people, but also knowing some the technical details. HowNOT2's ice screw episode was revealing.