Mountain Project Logo

Equalizing 2 pieces on lead

Original Post
j.henry · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2014 · Points: 0

Something I've been thinking about recently, and maybe i'm over-thinking it. I'm a relatively new trad leader. I realize that it's probably very context dependent, but what are some of the ways you accomplish getting 2 pieces more or less equalized when you only have one arm available to use at a stance? Especially when the placements are in separate features? Let's say you have 2 lengths of slings - 60cm tripled as alpine draws and a couple 120cm around your shoulder with a carabiner.

T Howes · · Bend, OR · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 20

Sliding x.

Nick Votto · · CO, CT, IT · Joined Jul 2008 · Points: 320

Sliding X

Daniel Winder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 101

Sling and clip both pieces independantly.

Wilson On The Drums · · Woodbury, MN · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 940

this is like a stupid question on one of my finals except i'm in food science and that has nothing t do with climbing. i'll choose "Sling and clip both pieces independantly."

Chase Bowman · · Durango, CO · Joined Jan 2014 · Points: 1,010

Its not a stupid question. I remember asking the same thing and i actually did it on some of my first leads. But looking back I don't know why.. But slinging both pieces and clipping them separately is probably your best bet.

David Coley · · UK · Joined Oct 2013 · Points: 70

On the whole you don't bother.
Just clip each independently, possibly to different ropes if using double ropes.

If you search this site you will find plenty of posts explaining that the load sharing advantages of a sliding-x isn't as useful as often thought.

However, you might want to link them if one is helping the other to stay in place. How you do this will depend on the placements, but the most common way would be to clip one with a 60cm sling, pass the sling through the other's carabiner and then between the strands of the sling.

Martin Harris · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2016 · Points: 200

If they r pretty close you can clip one cam to the others thumb loop

gtluke · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2012 · Points: 1
martinharris wrote:If they r pretty close you can clip one cam to the others thumb loop
Yup.
I seem to do this a lot at the gunks where the crux is usually pretty intimidating, protection is in horizontals, and having 2 pieces just feels better. stick em both in, clip to the better one like you normally would, then see what you can clip the racking biner on the backup to on your clipped in piece. If it's too far, put on a draw, and see what you can clip it to. If nothing works right, just clip both like normal.
M Mobley · · Bar Harbor, ME · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 911

All of the above depending on the situation/gear/rock.

BigFeet · · Texas · Joined May 2014 · Points: 385

You can also use one sling clipped to one piece and clove to the other. I believe in redundancy and a solid placement above equalization though.

It depends on many factors as to how the combining of two pieces is going to be implemented. I've found the best method is the one where I can keep it simple and use the least amount of gear for my risk tolerance. I'm not stingy with my gear, and work on safety as my first point, but the more you put on the wall the more complicated it becomes.

The above mentioned methods I use as well, but again, it depends.

wivanoff · · Northeast, USA · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 674

A good question would be: why do you want the pieces equalized?

If they are two good pieces, there's no real need. So, sling and clip independently. Especially nice since I usually lead on double ropes.

But, what if they are two micro nuts? Either one alone would not hold the fall but together they might.

For this situation, in the past, I've used a sliding X - knowing that if one leg blows, they both will go. But, if they equalize, they might hold together.

Now I know that the sliding X does not equalize as well as we thought so I may have been deluding myself. Is there a better solution? Or, in that situation, should I just keep using a sliding X and hope for the best?

I have a few ideas, but I'd like to hear other thoughts.

rgold · · Poughkeepsie, NY · Joined Feb 2008 · Points: 526

The sliding X is worth very little. And there is a nasty possibility, that the twist in one strand that is required could work its way over the gate and open it, so you really ought to be using two biners gates reversed or a locker. That's more one-handed fiddling and, all in all, not worth it considering the variations in sliding-X performance.

There is also the usual question addressed in all the threads on this, namely whether equalization is what you want. If the pieces vary greatly in their placement strength, equalization, in the off-chance you obtained it, would be counter-productive.

If there is a way to clip the pieces together that doesn't involve a big obtuse angle between pieces at the same level, fine. If they can be easily chained, fine. Otherwise, clip 'em separately with slings that you adjust as best you can to make them hang nearly the same length.

As is true in many situations, things go better with half ropes, especially if the two pieces are at the same horizontal level but too far separated for any kind of common sling connection.

Added: Wivanoff raises the micronut question. I've used lots of micronuts and fallen on some of them, but never used a sliding X on any of them for the usual reasons. But when micro gear is involved, I try for more than two pieces, and to the extent I can I try to keep the pieces high---overhead if possible. In that situation half ropes are a substantial advantage, because you can clip a questionable overhead piece and not pay a big slack penalty if it blows. In any case, it is a lot more important to work to keep potential falls short than to equalize.

Tom Lausch · · Madison WI · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 170
wivanoff wrote:A good question would be: why do you want the pieces equalized? If they are two good pieces, there's no real need. So, sling and clip independently. Especially nice since I usually lead on double ropes. But, what if they are two micro nuts? Either one alone would not hold the fall but together they might. For this situation, in the past, I've used a sliding X - knowing that if one leg blows, they both will go. But, if they equalize, they might hold together. Now I know that the sliding X does not equalize as well as we thought so I may have been deluding myself. Is there a better solution? Or, in that situation, should I just keep using a sliding X and hope for the best? I have a few ideas, but I'd like to hear other thoughts.
This ^^^. You could simply tie them off and equalize them with one sling with load limiting knots. That way if one blows the extension wont pop out the other garbage/small piece. But who has the time to do that? Use the sliding X and dont fall.
Optimistic · · New Paltz · Joined Aug 2007 · Points: 450
rgold wrote:The sliding X is worth very little. And there is a nasty possibility, that the twist in one strand that is required could work its way over the gate and open it, so you really ought to be using two biners gates reversed or a locker. That's more one-handed fiddling and, all in all, not worth it considering the variations in sliding-X performance. There is also the usual question addressed in all the threads on this, namely whether equalization is what you want. If the pieces vary greatly in their placement strength, equalization, in the off-chance you obtained it, would be counter-productive. If there is a way to clip the pieces together that doesn't involve a big obtuse angle between pieces at the same level, fine. If they can be easily chained, fine. Otherwise, clip 'em separately with slings that you adjust as best you can to make them hang nearly the same length. As is true in many situations, things go better with half ropes, especially if the two pieces are at the same horizontal level but too far separated for any kind of common sling connection.
So rgold, you don't buy the "two marginal pieces can make one adequate piece if they are equalized" argument? Do you know if that has ever been formally tested?
rgold · · Poughkeepsie, NY · Joined Feb 2008 · Points: 526

I buy it in theory, but I don't think there is any practical consequence, because (1) there is no reliable equalizing mechanism and (2) the very nature of marginal pieces means we really don't have a good handle on how good they are, and if they differ greatly in holding power, then equalization could be a worse alternative.

Darbley Sterway · · Aspen · Joined Sep 2014 · Points: 5

Best way to do it is get a piece in and go direct.Then you will be able to use both hands freely. Make a SRENE anchor and you're good to go.

Eric Chabot · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 45

>
>Best way to do it is get a piece in and go direct.Then you will be able to use >both hands freely. Make a SRENE anchor and you're good to go.

Why stop there? Go in direct, use both hands to grab your haul line and bring up the drill!

In all seriousness, I agree with above posters saying don't equalize unless the pieces really suck, are in suspect rock, etc.

M Mobley · · Bar Harbor, ME · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 911
Eric Chabot wrote: In all seriousness, I agree with above posters saying don't equalize unless the pieces really suck, are in suspect rock, etc.
unless they are micro nuts and you want them back if you fall
wivanoff · · Northeast, USA · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 674
Tom Lausch wrote: This ^^^. You could simply tie them off and equalize them with one sling with load limiting knots. That way if one blows the extension wont pop out the other garbage/small piece. But who has the time to do that? Use the sliding X and dont fall.
We know that the Sliding X doesn't do what we thought... with clutch effect and all.

One thing I thought of was connecting the two micronuts with a long sling that had limiter knots. I thought I'd clip just one strand between the limiter knots instead of making the X. That might allow for better equalization like the quad anchor does. (Hey, they're micronuts on lead. I'm not concerned about SRENE.) But, who could do that at a stance? I suppose you could pretie it before the stance. But, as rgold wrote "if they differ greatly in holding power, then equalization could be a worse alternative."

Maybe it's academic. At my age I'm no longer leading things where I need to nest micronuts. And, fortunately, I never had to actually test my micronut placements in the past with a fall.
Dan Africk · · Brooklyn, New York · Joined May 2014 · Points: 275

Yeah there is rarely if ever a good reason to equalize two pieces rather than clip them separately, but if you do, sliding X is the way to go. Keep in mind that if a carabiner unclips or the sling somehow gets cut over an edge, you've now had both pieces fail rather than just one.

That said, there is one other method that I saw illustrated in Climbing Magazine, called 'alpine anchors'. I don't think I've ever used it, and it's probably more trouble to setup and more problematic than it's worth, but I'll share it for curiosity's sake:

Alpine Anchors from Climbing Magazine

(I'm referring just to the part on the left, with two cams clipped together. I definitely I wouldn't use this for an actual anchor unless I was desperate and low in gear, and had no alternative.)

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Trad Climbing
Post a Reply to "Equalizing 2 pieces on lead"

Log In to Reply

Join the Community

Create your FREE account today!
Already have an account? Login to close this notice.

Get Started.