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Is this cam safe? Seasoned climbers remember!

Original Post
Benjamin Brooke · · San Pedro, CA · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 1,050
#1 Camalot

#1 Camalot

I found this Black Diamond #1 camalot last year. I hadn't seen this design with the U-stem before on a BD cam. It appears to be in great shape considering its age...i'm guessing 80s? When I compare it to the C4, this cam has a wider head, but slimmer lobes. Instead of a sewn sling, there is wire which appears to run all the way up, and is mounted to the head of the cam. I don't see any cracks in the lobes or other indication that the cam is not safe. I already have two red C4s but am wondering if its safe to climb on this. I mean, would you guys take a fall on this? My thinking is that it was good enough then, it is good enough now. When I first started climbing a few years ago I had a loner set of camalots with the different thumb press, and I rarely see those around. These I never see. I can't get over how good a shape this thing is in, BD really does design some top notch gear. Any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks.
mark felber · · Wheat Ridge, CO · Joined Jul 2005 · Points: 41

Late '80s/early '90s first generation Camalot. Can you read the date code on the cam lobe?

Chris Schmidt · · Fruita, CO · Joined Nov 2012 · Points: 0

I would fall on that.

Marc H · · Longmont, CO · Joined May 2007 · Points: 265

I've got a few of those that I generally only bring on my once-a-decade trip to IC. I try to place them in not-so-crucial spots.

Pete Spri · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2009 · Points: 347

I've heard of these tracking out of sandstone. FWIW.

LLubchenco · · Carbondale, CO · Joined Oct 2013 · Points: 25

My experience with them is mainly that if you can manage to retract the lobes on the damn thing while you're pumped and get it placed, there's really nothing wrong with them. The main the to know is that you can't just resling it. I've always been told that clipping a carabiner or runner onto them is the best way. That wire U will just cut through webbing. Climb on!

Marc H · · Longmont, CO · Joined May 2007 · Points: 265

Their thinner lobes do make them more susceptible to ripping out--especially in sandstone.

LLubchenco wrote:The main the to know is that you can't just resling it.
They didn't come with a sling; definitely don't attach a sling directly to the cable.

LL wrote:I've always been told that clipping a carabiner or runner onto them is the best way.
Curious to know what this means. ;) But maybe my 12 hour day is just catching up to me.
20 kN · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2009 · Points: 1,346

It's probably fine, although destructive testing of first/ second generation Camalots have proven they suck compared to what is available now. The 3rd gen cams were a big step up from the 2nd gen. I recall a number of instances in which the cam bent to shit and slid out of the steel testing fixture before the cam failed. I have never seen that happen with any other cam. However, it doesent seem to be an issue until around 10kN. So regardless of what's printed on the stem (probably 14kN), dont expect it to hold more than 8-10.

ac1 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2008 · Points: 10

I love the posters on MP. Some of the replies here must be from surgeons; "sometimes wrong, but never in doubt."

Here is a photo from the 1989 Chouinard catalog. Look familiar?

1989 Chouinard catalog: #3

Gunkiemike · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 3,492

Totally fine for use in hard stone. I still have #1, 2, and 3 from that generation.

Benjamin Brooke · · San Pedro, CA · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 1,050

thanks for input. hey gunkiemike, how do you feel about these cams in horizontals. i'm noticing a big difference in flexibility for a horizontal load between this and the modern C4. its really just the plastic covering the wire that makes them stiff. i have a feeling that a fall onto a horizontal placement would mangle this thing. however, without the plastic sheath they would be crazy flexible. BTW, i can't find anything on the cam itself with regards to strength or date, the catalog helped there.

Frank Stein · · Albuquerque, NM · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 205

Wow...I'm feeling old. My first set of cams...Still have the set. Use as extras when I need a shitload of same size.

Benjamin Brooke · · San Pedro, CA · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 1,050

with a single biner it would be the same as clipping the thumb loop on a c4. i'd probably use a draw to keep it from walking, it seems this cam would be more apt to walk than a c4.

Frank Stein · · Albuquerque, NM · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 205

Regarding horizontals, they actually do okay. You slide the plastic cover all the way to the end, which allows the cables to bend at the head of the cam. Never fell on one in a horizontal, but have aided off of them in horizontals, and they were none the worse for wear.

Greg Barnes · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 2,060

Just check the head of the cam for cracks, the Chouinard #1 tended to develop a thin crack on the head, I have one that I bootied and it has that crack.

Also retract the plastic sheathing and make sure the cables aren't frayed where they go into the head, that was a problem as well.

If neither of those problems is present, it's good to go!

highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion · · Colorado · Joined Oct 2012 · Points: 35

They have a known issue of cracking where the swaged or brazed (can't remember) ball meets the aluminum body that houses the axles (does that sentence make sense?).

I've seen them used and they usually have that crack, it's not supposed to be there. I've heard, not personally tested, and no I can't cite sources, that the crack might not actually weaken the cam.

I would place it from a stance and save the newer ones with an easier to operate trigger for the hard climbing.

Frank Stein · · Albuquerque, NM · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 205

I bought mine in early 1993, 1992 being the last year they were made. I do remember the cracking issue, and I also remember Black Diamond testing cracked cams. They found that the swaged cable ends would not pass through the double axles even when through and through cracks were present, so the cam should not catastrophically fail when fallen on. The cable cutting through slings should not be an issue, as you should not be slinging them in the first place.

teece303 · · Highlands Ranch, CO · Joined Dec 2012 · Points: 596

That number on the cam in pic #2 is the date marking, no? It says "3174?" Or maybe "8174" or "0174."

If the scheme on these is the same as what I know, that first number is the last digit of the production year.

Thus, my old 3rd gen Camalots all start with a "4," which I know means mine were manufactured in 1994.

So you have an idea if age. If it's really a three, that would seem to indicate 1993, but others have said these ceased production in 1992. Hmm.... They don't look old enough for 1983.

Maybe that's a "0" and it was made in 1990. Maybe those number didn't mean the same thing then.

Bob M · · Alpharetta, GA · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 50

I have a couple of these that are slightly older and have a different plastic sleeve.

Old #2

As mentioned above, they are known for developing a crack in the head, so check for that and frayed cables. I also heard that even when cracked, pull tests have shown they don't fail because of that, but I took it as a good excuse to buy some new gear. Here's a pic of the crack you're looking for.

Crack

Kent Pease · · Littleton, CO · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 1,066

As others have noted, there are two potential problems: 1) the head can have cracks, and 2) the cables fray. Here are two good photos that show the ailments:

Frayed cable at head connection

Cracks in had

ClimbingOn · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2008 · Points: 0

I believe these used to be referred to as "Hippie Killers." I could be confusing this with another cam but I believe it refers to these.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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