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Refrigeration for food during extended trips?

Matt Wolski · · Salt Lake City · Joined May 2002 · Points: 355

I have a 300Ah AGM battery bank running the Whynter, lights, ceiling fan, 3000 watt inverter (hot pot, laptop, photo). With a little driving here and there, it stays charged. If you wanted to go completely native, a 200ish watt PV system would generate enough power to keep the fridge running and the batteries topped off. I know all of this sounds like a lot of trouble and expense to keep beer cold but...

Morgan Patterson · · NH · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 8,945
Matt Wolski wrote:I have a 300Ah AGM battery bank running the Whynter, lights, ceiling fan, 3000 watt inverter (hot pot, laptop, photo). With a little driving here and there, it stays charged. If you wanted to go completely native, a 200ish watt PV system would generate enough power to keep the fridge running and the batteries topped off. I know all of this sounds like a lot of trouble and expense to keep beer cold but...
...but we're all adults here who really like cold beer!

Thanks for the feedback... def awesome setup!
Matt Wolski · · Salt Lake City · Joined May 2002 · Points: 355

Well thanks. And for the record, my profile pic is about 10 years old. I'm old enough to (legally) buy beer now.

As far as solar charge controllers go, I've had best luck with Bly Sky MPPT units because for long term applications--posting up at the Creek for a month--where you might inadvertently deeply discharge your secondary battery system. It will restart off the panel when the sun comes back out, whereas other units (i.e. Samlex) need a threshold voltage to operate...which means a trip to town to borrow a battery charger.

These are very first-world problems.

20 kN · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2009 · Points: 1,346
Matt Wolski wrote:Well thanks. And for the record, my profile pic is about 10 years old. I'm old enough to (legally) buy beer now. As far as solar charge controllers go, I've had best luck with Bly Sky MPPT units because for long term applications--posting up at the Creek for a month--where you might inadvertently deeply discharge your secondary battery system. It will restart off the panel when the sun comes back out, whereas other units (i.e. Samlex) need a threshold voltage to operate...which means a trip to town to borrow a battery charger. These are very first-world problems.
I cant believe Goal Zero 30W panels go for $200 when there are 100W panels out there for $150...
Morgan Patterson · · NH · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 8,945

Renogy has a 100w Mono panel for $150... great panel.

J. Broussard · · CordryCorner · Joined Feb 2011 · Points: 50

There are a couple of ongoing topics that are discussing solar power. This little trick applies to both.

Always travel with a Battery Jump Box. You can be as big of a goof (in terms of using energy after dark) as you want and always be able to turn over the engine.
You do have to be careful not to damage your batteries by discharging them regularly; but this is a back up plan that doesn't involve isolators or disconnects.

For longer trips, it's good to have a jump box that then recharges off of your alternator, so you can keep it topped off as well.

mattm · · TX · Joined Jun 2006 · Points: 1,885

The Renogy with free shipping looks nice.

One thing to consider for these panels is size/weight and how/where you'll be transporting them. I found anything above about a 60W panel was pretty bulky to fit in the back of my Jeep. If you're mounting it on a roof etc then not as big a deal.

While a bit more expensive, those Renogy folding suitcases with the protective cover and built in angle adjustment look pretty nice. I DIY'd mine but wish I had a padded case to put them in. With the sharp frame edges and glass, raw panels are a bit of a PITA to transport. A padded case would make that less of a hassle.

If one is really looking to top tier then opting for the much more expensive PowerFilm folding panels is worth a look. The ThinFilm solar tech, while much more expensive, can also be much more efficient than a similar mono or poly crystalline panel. See here:
youtube.com/watch?v=flvkYi7…

Jump Boxes certainly can save your butt however, I think it's better to leave your vehicle main alone and simply use a build specific battery box. The Jump Box battery is typically not designed for deep discharge (nor is your vehicle main) so using either one for supplemental power can shorten their lives considerably.

kirkadirka · · Down there somewhere · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 115

I like the dry ice option too for extended refrigeration time with a cooler.

I find however, that placing the dry ice on the bottom of the cooler and then insulating that with a layer of ice works best.

If placing the dry ice on top of everything it tends to freeze all your food rock solid.

Adam Stackhouse · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 13,970

For anything longer than a typical weekend, I employ two coolers. One is fairly small, tightly packed with ice on the bottom and meats dairy and other goods on top. It doesn't get open but maybe twice a day, and that is an important factor in how long the cold temperature can hold. The second cooler is a little larger which i have things like beer water gatorade etc that gets opened much more frequently. This method is admittedly only good for 5 days max in the hot SoCal weather, but it helps.

BTW, I have found buying a nice mid-grade cooler really helps. I have a wheeled Igloo Marine Breeze which has performed pretty well. As far as the Yeti, I think the price really is prohibitive and I'd have to worry about locking the damn thing up.

Anyway, good luck!

Tony B · · Around Boulder, CO · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 24,665

Propane-fueled coolers work, and you get the large-tank adapter. But they can go out in very high/gusty winds if stored outside.

Greg D · · Here · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 883
mattm wrote:The Renogy with free shipping looks nice. One thing to consider for these panels is size/weight and how/where you'll be transporting them. I found anything above about a 60W panel was pretty bulky to fit in the back of my Jeep. If you're mounting it on a roof etc then not as big a deal. While a bit more expensive, those Renogy folding suitcases with the protective cover and built in angle adjustment look pretty nice. I DIY'd mine but wish I had a padded case to put them in. With the sharp frame edges and glass, raw panels are a bit of a PITA to transport. A padded case would make that less of a hassle. If one is really looking to top tier then opting for the much more expensive PowerFilm folding panels is worth a look. The ThinFilm solar tech, while much more expensive, can also be much more efficient than a similar mono or poly crystalline panel. See here: youtube.com/watch?
Although that video makes a valid point regarding shading, it is quite deceiving. If you are putting your solar panel behind a pole, tree or other shadow, you missed the solar 101 class. As you can see, the output of thin film is significantly less than mono and poly panels per area. So you need a lot more area for the thin film for a comparable output. This may or may not be an issue but can affect cost too. I agree the ability to fold up a soft panel vs a rigid panel may be advantageous in the back of your suv. Of course, there are other cost benefits to each so it depends on your intended usages. But, that video is lame.
Morgan Patterson · · NH · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 8,945

I would also add I've accidentally dropped mine a few times or had it blow over leaning against my cabin and fall onto a wooden deck and not a scratch. . . The hard panels are very durable from what I can tell.

Greg D · · Here · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 883

^^^ Yes, most are rated to take a 1 1/4" hail stone at terminal velocity if it has the SRCC rating. Also, warranty of at least 85% output after 25 years.

Cayuse · · Spokane · Joined Apr 2013 · Points: 20

A bit of apples and oranges here but I will throw this out for the sake of comparison...

I run two of the Renogy 100W mono panels wired in parallel on the roof of my popup camper. They charge two group 31 batteries. The main draw is an Isotherm 65 compressor fridge. Since putting the panels on I have left the fridge running full time, always keep a few necessities in there for a quick escape of a cold beer after cragging. Even after several days of rain/overcast first thing in the morning my batteries will still be at around 12.3V.

All of this is a long way of saying that it wouldn't take a lot of solar to keep one of those smaller fridges going especially during the summertime when you get a better angle on the sun.

Happiegrrrl · · Gunks · Joined Dec 2005 · Points: 60

I've been living without electricity since 2009 and for the last four years have refused to pay for water, even if it is frozen. So - what Dan Bachen said.

In hot summer, true, some vegetables may start to wilt pretty quickly. But a little soft spot or rot can be cut away and the rest of the tomato or whatever is fine. I have stored eggs as long as three weeks in a cheap Coleman cooler with no ice, and never had a problem. People have been taught we must be terrified of our food. It is a myth to keep up purchasing consumer products.

That said, it is helpful to move the cooler to colder zones when possible. The difference between a shady spot under a boulder and in the sun on the mesa is huge.

Cold beverages...not gonna happen on a hot summer day. Find the local bar that has internet and have your beer there while you check on net things.

I DID buy a cheap electric cooler to use on summer days when I worked the booth at Mohonk. I could plug it in to the booth's electricity and it cooled enough to make a juice not tepid, but far from icily refreshing. Still, being out in the sun for 10 hours doing customer interaction, that cold afternoon drink made a big difference. I am glad I bought it, for work, but will not be taking it on the road, even though it can run off the car accessory thing.

Of course, if money is not an element in the decision, a quality 3-way fridge would be ideal, if you have the space in your rig.

Scottmx426 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2014 · Points: 0

I've seen dry ice slabs placed on the bottom of a cooler. Then freeze your meats and such and add block ice. There's a YouTube video on it. It keeps your water ice frozen for much longer. Add a good cooler and you might have over a week or two of cold food.

MisterE Wolfe · · Grass Valley, CA · Joined Dec 2007 · Points: 8,092

I was living out of my trailer for 3 months in Bishop this summer in raging heat, and pretty quickly got tired of spending a lot of money on block ice. The Yeti's seemed prohibitively expensive, but Coleman has recently started producing a line of thick-walled coolers to compete with Yeti.

I ended up buying a 55-quart "Esky" cooler - it was about a hundred dollars less than the Yeti, and even in 110-degree heat 2 blocks would last 4-5 days.

Edit: it also has a hose attachment for draining water away from the cooler - I attached a 10' chunk of hose and ran it out one of the trailer access panels.

john strand · · southern colo · Joined May 2008 · Points: 1,640

With any solar set up, you don't want to be beating your batteries down to 50 every day..the they can take it, but the longevity hurts.

With 2x75 watt panels your gonna get 10 amp x 5 hours a day..more with an MPPT and less sometimes..these are not 100 % efficient. That's 600 watts @ 12 volts..ok for a small fridge, but watch the other things.

If you really want to spend some $$ I use a Sundanzer 165 in my house, super efficient..about $1200 i think now.

mattm · · TX · Joined Jun 2006 · Points: 1,885
Greg D wrote: Although that video makes a valid point regarding shading, it is quite deceiving. If you are putting your solar panel behind a pole, tree or other shadow, you missed the solar 101 class. As you can see, the output of thin film is significantly less than mono and poly panels per area. So you need a lot more area for the thin film for a comparable output. This may or may not be an issue but can affect cost too. I agree the ability to fold up a soft panel vs a rigid panel may be advantageous in the back of your suv. Of course, there are other cost benefits to each so it depends on your intended usages. But, that video is lame.
Yes and No. What one chooses for a panel varies a lot on intended usage and location. In residential installs (I have an 8k system on my roof) things like location, energy output per area and costs can play major roles. One most likely has a finite amount of space up there AND should be getting the best cost per installed watt to make the investment a good one. Right now, this almost always means Crystal Silicon Panels. I actually priced out Dow Solar Shingles (Thin Film and their cost per watt made the investment a non-starter. Also, since the system is a fixed installation, one can design specifically for things like shading issues via sun path modeling etc etc. If shading issues are present, opting for Micro Inverters (higher cost) vs single inverter might make sense. In large, utility scale projects, the space limit is often not an issue or perhaps less of one, so Thin Film and its benefits (higher shading performance and less sensitivity to high heat being some) come into play. Thin Film is also more competitive price wise in the large installation segment but I'm not very knowledgeable in that realm.

More on Thin Film

Now, if we look at "solar camping" we have different variables.
1) We're not really looking for a "good investment" per se as we're talking about energy convenience vs cost savings. Yes, a crystalline panel is cheaper but if it doesn't provide the power or convenience we want then it really isn't a good investment. What is "worth it" will be an individual decision.

2) Solar camping can have a LOT of site limitations. While out west sunny days and clear views of the sky are the norm (no shading problems in camp) other areas of the country are NOT that convenient. Wooded locations or gray skies will hamper solar production so while yes, we don't want to put our panel behind a pole, we might not have a choice (canopy overhead, clouds etc etc)

3) Admittedly, the massive pole shading the panel is a bit extreme but I can attest to shading having a dramatic effect on production. In testing on my 60W crystalline I'd put the shadow of a #2 pencil on the cells to see what would happen. Big Time drops on output. I'll have to dig up the numbers if I have them but it's not a couple of Watts. If you're out climbing all day and a leaf blows onto your panel your output drops. Thin Film might serve you better.

4) In the sizes we're talking about (100W or less) the size of a ThinFilm vs Crystalline panel isn't that big a deal, particularly if the Thin Film folds up for transport. Flopping a ThinFilm onto the hood of your car or over your tent is simply no big deal.

I'm hoping the continuing drop in Thin Film tech costs finds it's way into the folding market so the cost benefit makes more sense to a casual camper...
Greg D · · Here · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 883
mattm wrote: Yes and No. What one chooses for a panel varies a lot on intended usage and location
You could have stopped there since that's what I said. But thanks for your lengthy explanation and demonstration of your knowledge and ability to link to an article. I'll spare you my credentials but I do this stuff everyday. My point was that video was a marketing tool and quite misleading.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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