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YES! I do need more photos for the Cochise Guidebook

Original Post
wwwcochiseclimbing com · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2008 · Points: 140

The season is in full swing in the Stronghold and I see that lots of you are getting out there. People have been contacting me inquiring if I am still looking for photos. Sure am!

This summer I logged hundreds and hundreds of hours working my way through the guidebook. I am finding that I am continually changing the layout so adding photos is not a problem. I still need photos of people climbing the following routes: Tombstone Crack, Dark Shadows, Stilletto, The route right of Stampede, Cragaholics, Beeline, Dreamscape, Be All End All, Good Zzzz.

If you have any of these or others that you would be interested in sharing for the guidebook please let me know:
Hideout Area
ANY route on the Sheepshead
ANYthing in the West (WhaleDome, Warpaint, Amplified Gravity)
Lebowski, Zappa
Rockfellow, Cochise Dome
Beanfestivities

The book is coming along splendidly and I am almost ready to send out example pages and I can't wait to have some topos ready for people at the Beanfest. Which, by the way, is Oct 25th. And to the people who have pre purchased the guidebook- I will also be getting other topos to you first.

Trying to write a guidebook from scratch has been a huge undertaking. The support I have received form other guidebook authors, photographers, climbers, friends and industry professionals is amazing.

Thanks again, Tanya

Peter Noebels · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2007 · Points: 61

I can't believe as long as Scott was in the video/imaging business that you now ask for images from the general public and not offer payment. I seem to think that would not happen if the shoes were reversed and some one ask Scott for his work for free back in the day.

NC Rock Climber · · The Oven, AKA Phoenix · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 60

I made multiple posts on the other thread asking for an update on the book. I got no reply. Now, you are starting another thread about the book. How long will you be following this thread? Will you be replying to questions here?

Peter Noebels · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2007 · Points: 61

This post does not follow the original post but has merit regarding the post from "azclimb".
It was about the time that End Game was established , early '90's I finally headed up to Poetry in Motion feeling I finally had the nerve to get on it. Arriving at the base of the route I found bolts everywhere and I not knowing what was what I retreated and ended up on End Game because it looked established , straight forward and fun. Not knowing a thing about the route I brought a rack along and started climbing the first pitch. As soon as I got a few bolts up I quickly realized I could easily place bomber gear between the plates/chicken heads and bypassed six bolts.
Fast forward to last week when I had the opportunity to get on "Poetry in Motion" and I lead pitch 1 and 3. On p3 I ended up clipping a Scott bolt which crosses "Poetry in Motion" which I did not know about. The point being, Scott's bolts took away from my adventure again and I feel i want to go back and climb it again without that bolt.
One last tidbit, after the route was established (End Game) I asked Mark Colby (who did the route w/Scott) about those six bolts and he said to me they were easy to put in because of the great gear between the plates and then said opps, I should not have mentioned that.
A fantastic route which could have been so much better.

RyanJames · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2010 · Points: 505

I'm really getting sick of hearing stories like this trashing Scott, a guy who has put more blood, sweat, and effort into routes in southern Az than anyone else, other than EFR. So, if you're whole experience on 600 ft route was ruined by "one" bolt, then I feel sorry for your climbing partners. Next time, just skip it, and quit your bitchin.

Geir www.ToofastTopos.com · · Tucson/DMR · Joined Jun 2006 · Points: 2,751

Ryan,

No offense, but there are a lot more bolts around/on Poetry than the one that Peter mistakenly clipped, and there are a lot more routes where frustrating things have happened. The Stronghold is a public place. If people do not like what has been done to it they have every right to make public statements about it.

M Mobley · · Bar Harbor, ME · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 911
RyanJames wrote: Next time, just skip it, and quit your bitchin.
S AZ bitches still on the witch hunt.

I do like how Geir draws up and offers free topos of Scotts routes while trashing the guy on the internet. I will say I'm glad he did though, I never would have done Endgame last time I was there.
Peter Noebels · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2007 · Points: 61

Thanks Ryan for your voice in this, next time maybe you should bypass the thread.
In response to MJ, do you think this so called witch hunt is unfounded? Wake up and see the trash left behind by one individual.

M Mobley · · Bar Harbor, ME · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 911
RyanJames wrote:I'm really getting sick of hearing stories like this trashing Scott, a guy who has put more blood, sweat, and effort into routes in southern Az than anyone else, other than EFR. So, if you're whole experience on 600 ft route was ruined by "one" bolt, then I feel sorry for your climbing partners. Next time, just skip it, and quit your bitchin.
Peter Noebels wrote:Thanks Ryan for your voice in this, next time maybe you should bypass the thread. In response to MJ, do you think this so called witch hunt is unfounded? Wake up and see the trash left behind by one individual.
Peter, you are the one who should bypass/quit hijacking threads. Start your own HATE ON SCOTT thread, this thread was completely legit until you took over. Maybe you boys should put the terrorist costumes back on and go jihad his ass face to face, this internet trashing has become old.
Brian Benedon · · Tucson · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 1,682

I find it sad that Tanya can not post anything without someone talking trash about her husband for something that was done 20 years ago. Both instigators have previous history and ulterior motives, the rants have nothing to do with climbing. This sort of harassment is tantamount to schoolyard bullying. The so. AZ climbing community is tired and will not stand for it.

The book is coming along and looks fantastic, they are working tirelessly on it, and I'm sure they will post any news when they have some. For those that don't realize the how much effort goes into a guide book; here is an example. On your day off, you gas up you truck, drive to Cochise, scramble up, and all over, by yourself to get good beta shots, then you return home and stay up until 1am sorting info. You meet with others to compare notes in-order to provide the most accurate info as poss. Then you repeat that over and over again. On top of that she has to deal with trash talk.

Sharing free pictures; I totally get that no one likes to work for free, how do think the authors feel? Local guide books are not a lucrative enterprise; I doubt the monetary rewards will be adequate compensation for their efforts. A local guide book is a community service. Any pictures or info shared will benefit all of us and then some.

Geir www.ToofastTopos.com · · Tucson/DMR · Joined Jun 2006 · Points: 2,751
brian benedon wrote:I find it sad that Tanya can not post anything without someone talking trash about her husband for something that was done 20 years ago. Both instigators have previous history and ulterior motives, the rants have nothing to do with climbing. This sort of harassment is tantamount to schoolyard bullying. The so. AZ climbing community is tired and will not stand for it. The book is coming along and looks fantastic, they are working tirelessly on it, and I'm sure they will post any news when they have some. For those that don't realize the how much effort goes into a guide book; here is an example. On your day off, you gas up you truck, drive to Cochise, scramble up, and all over, by yourself to get good beta shots, then you return home and stay up until 1am sorting info. You meet with others to compare notes in-order to provide the most accurate info as poss. Then you repeat that over and over again. On top of that she has to deal with trash talk. Sharing free pictures; I totally get that no one likes to work for free, how do think the authors feel? Local guide books are not a lucrative enterprise; I doubt the monetary rewards will be adequate compensation for their efforts. A local guide book is a community service. Any pictures or info shared will benefit all of us and then some.
Bullying Brian????

I have seen people threatened with assault numerous times in the past around here. I have heard endless trash talk as well. You call out people for harassment of Scott but I have firsthand witnessed this being done by Scott or his friends toward others. Your label of bullying can be applied on Scott as well.

I am not sure how you speak for the community. There are people that like what Scott has done and others that do not. There are thousands of people who use the Stronghold, are you claiming to represent them all?

I believe that most of these hard feelings would be reduced if Scott were to repair the controversial acts he is responsible for.

Scott's pending book has revived some hot topics because it is putting into print some of the climbs that used contested practices. I think that's why the problems get mentioned every time the book does.

Fix the problem areas honestly and I think most of the hard feelings will go away.

Geir

PS excuse any typos as I am busy and typing on my blasted phone.
[edited for clarity]
lloyd · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2011 · Points: 95
brian benedon wrote:I find it sad that Tanya can not post anything without someone talking trash about her husband for something that was done 20 years ago.
That's a laugh. Some of his glue probably isn't even dry yet.

brian benedon wrote:AZ climbing community is tired and will not stand for it.
I really wish that was true. Maybe Scott would stop with the pin-cushion bolting, gluing and other despicable practices.

brian benedon wrote:For those that don't realize the how much effort goes into a guide book; here is an example. On your day off, you gas up you truck, drive to Cochise, scramble up, and all over, by yourself to get good beta shots, then you return home and stay up until 1am sorting info. You meet with others to compare notes in-order to provide the most accurate info as poss. Then you repeat that over and over again. On top of that she has to deal with trash talk.
Thankless task. Yeah we all get that, but you forgot the part where you have to spend HOURS on the phone every night whining to all your friends and trying to get them to pop up on the forums and rant against people (using popular buzzword phrases like "bullying") that call you on your sh*t in public where everyone can see it. Another famous SA trait. No wonder it's taking so long.
Larry · · SoAZ · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 50

I don't agree with every route that Scott has put up at the Stronghold, but overall I have thoroughly enjoyed his routes.

Speaking for myself, I am sick and tired of the incessant hounding of Scott, and now Tanya, on forums.

Christian RodaoBack · · Tucson, AZ · Joined Jul 2005 · Points: 1,486
Tim Lutz wrote:Hey sunny state climbers! Looks like you are giving your local gluer chipper grid bolter the ol what for Well, my hat is off to you. In fine AZ style, run em of of town like the illegals and gays! Hey, it worked for the ol tree chopper and NY chipper. And the online outing, name calling, threats, made climbers look AWESOME to land managers and built a community of people that hate those that see rock climbing differently than the norm. Eliminate the outliers!
Lol, anonymous (edit ANONYMOUS) oh wait did I forget to mention " 'no skin in the game", 'no horse in the race',etc, etc,,,.............. (too lazy to look up further metaphors)...

trolls should show some skill at appearing not to be trolls. I mean, if the enemy knows what your intention is, what's the point, right?

You did a pretty good job in another thread, but this one, not so much.
Jimbo · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 1,310

Fact is Scott screwed up in the Stronghold more times than I can count. Fact is he has never had the courage to admit this in a public forum. Fact is he he's still getting rubes to fight for him on MP. All these rubes do eventually see the dark light that is Scott, bail, and then Scott has to find another stooge to fight his battles for him.

No one is questioning the quality of many of Scotts routes, but a bunch of good routes does not excuse, chipping, gluing and bolting over old Stronghold Scare fests.

I for one, would have a much easier time forgiving Scott is indiscretions if he would just man up and do a full mea culpa for all to hear. Instead he continues to play the victim in all this.

Before we chopped his route on Rockafellow there was a full month of internet "discussions" on the proper way to deal with the chiseling. If Scott had, early on, posted on MP that he screwed up and then went out and fixed the problem himself, he would have regained our respect to a great degree.

I wish him and Tanya luck on the new guide book. But as long as he continues to hide from his past there will be those that continue to remind him of it.

Mike Diesen · · Sierra Vista, AZ · Joined Oct 2006 · Points: 365

Amy went shopping for some new bright climbing clothes. We're looking forward to hanging out this weekend and getting some good shots for the book.

M Mobley · · Bar Harbor, ME · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 911
Jimbo wrote:Fact is Scott screwed up in the Stronghold more times than I can count. Fact is he has never had the courage to admit this in a public forum. Fact is he he's still getting rubes to fight for him on MP.
Those "facts" are opinions FYi, even rubes and stooges know that. I bet while your posse was having all of your internet discussions on why he wouldn't post up in this forum you could have found him there on the mountain and discussed it face to face.
RyanJames · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2010 · Points: 505

(Pause)

Great beanfest weekend! Got a take a few pictures for the book, and we even got to see a few pages from it. WOW!!! It really will be THE BEST guidebook out there for Cochise--colored pictures, excellent route info, very detailed! So psyched!

We also got to climb a few of His routes this weekend. Dang they were really GOOD!!!

Wasn't that weird to read another positive comment in this thread about Cochise?

:)

(Okay... continue bitching)

NC Rock Climber · · The Oven, AKA Phoenix · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 60
RyanJames wrote:...We also got to climb a few of His routes this weekend...
Wow! I did not know that Jesus was doing FAs at The Stronghold. Does he use bolts?
Jimbo · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 1,310

MJMobes,

Opinions really? It is my opinion that he chiseled an entire pitch on the proudest dome in the Stronghold. It is my opinion that he has bolted over existing lines? It is my opinion that he has never done a mea culpa?

Those aren't opinions those are facts.

I did meet with Scott after the incident. He couldn't admit to me then that he had been wrong about the chiseling. I assured him if he re-bolted the pitch it would come down again.

I do wish Tanya and Scott all the best with their guide book. I'm sure it will be a great tool for Cochise climbers. Hell, I'll probably buy one.

If Scott does a full Mea culpa in the intro to the new guide I will drive over to his house with a cold six pack and a heart felt handshake. Somehow I doubt I will have to make good on this, but I would love for him to prove me wrong.

Eric D · · Gnarnia · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 235

Tim - It's not a question of person a vs. person b. It's a question of respecting widely accepted guidelines in the climbing community.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Arizona & New Mexico
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