Simulclimbing - Minitraxion to protect leader

Hans wrote: But the OP is talking about simuling only 3 rope lengths on a long rope, on routes he described as having "complex terrain".

I think you are putting words in his mouth...did not say either that he was climbing only 3 rope lengths or that the terrain was complex. He said the terrain was 'slightly more complex' and described a situation with a specific number of pitches, then re-racking. But ok.

Hans wrote:It sounds like you are basically soloing and using the tiblocs or whatever to be able to drag a second up the route who is a weaker climber.

This is not soloing any more then the simuling you describe is soloing...you still put in gear as in normal simuling. You simply add a micro trax every once in a while to protect the second from pulling off the leader. No substantive difference...just simuling with an added element of protection. You can use as long or as short a rope as you want. You rerack (as in normal simuling) every so often and collect the traxions.

Hans wrote: I completely agree with JeffL, that if you are worried about the second falling then you probably shouldn't be simulclimbing that terrain.

What can I say? I was not worried about my second falling off...just choose to have the added measure of protection...cause why not? I have the two traxions for TR soloing. The op described what he was thinking about doing and I can say that i have done it before and it worked out fine from a technical perspective. Is there possible complications? Sure. If you look around, you will see that people have been doing this for years. Maybe you disagree with it? Maybe your way is better and faster? Fine with me...don't do it then...I am just sharing what I know about this technique specific to the ops question having done it before.

Stoked to be hearing all the chatter.

There is always risk right, that is just climbing. I am seeking to find a way to mitigate a catastrophe; lizard in the crack, rockfall, wet rock, etc...

The Duck has gotten the best reviews thus far. From the pictures I have seen it appears to have groves that help bite the rope, but nothing like to microtrax.

Climbs like Yellow Spur are what I'm talking about. Takes days to pitch out, but knowing the route you could simul and have time to get a few more in afterwards!

Have you done the yellow spur?

I ask, because although I disagree with a lot of the simul climbing nay saying in this thread, that strikes me as a route that you can dispatch incredibly quickly, pitched out. If you are familiar with the route it can be done in four pitches. If you are fast and comfortable at that grade, that is two hours of climbing, tops.

Try that old Hans Florine book on climbing faster - pretty legit speed climbing strategy/simul climbing info in there.

Wow some really good advice and some really strange advice on this thread! You have to love the internet.

My contribution is that, sooner or later, the second will fall and it can certainly be the stronger climber on the team. Shit happens. Be real sure you have your system dialed and consider the team, terrain, weather, time of day, alternative ways of advancing, etc...

Admittedly this doesn't really apply to your average climber and they have the route absolutely wired, but I saw microtraxions hanging off the harnesses of these guys one night when they were sprinting up the Naked Edge for protecting the leader from a fall of the second at the top of a number of pitches. Food for thought.

climbing.com/news/naked-edg…

billwright510climbing.blogs…

Yep, Stefan and Jason use a couple of micro-traxion's and a 100' rope when climbing the Edge.

The micro-traxions run smoother than devices that don't integrate a pulley, which means less drag and less jostling of whatever you have it anchored to. I don't have experience with other devices, so I can't really compare.

I was concerned about the micro-trax teeth damaging the sheath, so I did a drop test experiment. It took 4 factor 1 falls on the same spot to get a core shot, and a fifth fall to sheath the rope, which was quite reassuring to me.
mountainproject.com/v/quick…

As far as jaredj's concern about slack in the system causing the leader to get yoinked... yeah, avoid using a long sling. However, the leader doesn't have to be too far up before the stretch in the line greatly reduces the pull they would experience.

Be aware that the Petzl devices can inadvertently lock open, so consider modifying them by filing off the locking tab.

Old skool simul-climbing definitely dictated that the 2nd must not fall, but auto-locking devices totally change that. For people that still view it as unsafe, consider that "speed is safety", especially in the alpine.

doak wrote:Yep, Stefan and Jason use a couple of micro-traxion's and a 100' rope when climbing the Edge. The micro-traxions run smoother than devices that don't integrate a pulley, which means less drag and less jostling of whatever you have it anchored to. I don't have experience with other devices, so I can't really compare. I was concerned about the micro-trax teeth damaging the sheath, so I did a drop test experiment. It took 4 factor 1 falls on the same spot to get a core shot, and a fifth fall to sheath the rope, which was quite reassuring to me. mountainproject.com/v/quick… As far as jaredj's concern about slack in the system causing the leader to get yoinked... yeah, avoid using a long sling. However, the leader doesn't have to be too far up before the stretch in the line greatly reduces the pull they would experience. Be aware that the Petzl devices can inadvertently lock open, so consider modifying them by filing off the locking tab. Old skool simul-climbing definitely dictated that the 2nd must not fall, but auto-locking devices totally change that. For people that still view it as unsafe, consider that "speed is safety", especially in the alpine.

Great stuff man! Thanks for the info.