FIRST TIME MOUNTAINEERING, GEAR SUGGESTIONS
|
Hello and good day everyone. Though I am not a major contributor to the Mountain Project forums, I am hoping to get a little assistance and advice for purchasing equipment and clothing for what will be my first Mountaineering Class and hopefully many more trips to come. |
|
My advice: |
|
Stagg54 wrote:My advice: You are on the right track. I would recommend picking out 2 or 3 objectives and then talking to your guide and seeing what gear he would recommend for those objectives. Your gear needs will vary based on a variety of things: activity, location, season, etc. Really helpful if they are objectives your guide is familiar with and/or has done (nothing like first/hand knowledge). Also if the class let's you rent gear or provides gear I would take advantage of that and try things out. Gear is very personal, particularly clothing and sleeping systems. What works for one person may not work for another. Best to try as many options as you can before settling on one. Also pay attention to what the guide is using and whatever around you is using. Certain items are popular for good reason (and then again there are a few things that are really fashionable but completely useless) Also try to think of your gear in terms of systems and how it all interacts. For example, sleeping system, cooking system, etc... It's all got to work together.Yes though I do try and keep my pack organized by system, I dont usually have to consider much when packing given the low altitude and short hikes of only a few miles. Having to haul more, in a colder environment, for longer periods of time will require a more stringent decision of what I need and want on the mountain. For instance while considering my cooking system, the Jetboil is a great item but does it really stand up to the high winds and cold temperatures? Other stoves with wind screens tend to be heavier but perhaps the extra material provides a more stable heat source for cooking. I am sure this is one of many topics i will bring up now that I'm stirring up the idea pot. Thanks for the input. |
|
Danyl Britts wrote: For instance while considering my cooking system, the Jetboil is a great item but does it really stand up to the high winds and cold temperatures? Other stoves with wind screens tend to be heavier but perhaps the extra material provides a more stable heat source for cooking. I am sure this is one of many topics i will bring up now that I'm stirring up the idea pot. Thanks for the input.that's exactly the correct way to be thinking. |
|
In cold weather jetboil consumes tons of fuel in order to do basic cooking or melt snow. I would use a whisperlite or similar white gas stove for winter mountaineering. You will be able to carry less fuel. |
|
Everyone will have their own opinions. If I were going into a cold mountaineering scenario, here's what I would be taking/packing. This is what I own, and I don't claim to be an expert. |
|
20F bag without a bivy sack and vapor barrier isn't going to go far in Maine. |
|
As others said, you're pretty much on the right track. Your guide should be able to give you more help with everything, but I have a few specific suggestions. |
|
Stagg54 wrote: that's exactly the correct way to be thinking.Thanks! Just trying to cover all my bases. Mike Hancock wrote:In cold weather jetboil consumes tons of fuel in order to do basic cooking or melt snow. I would use a whisperlite or similar white gas stove for winter mountaineering. You will be able to carry less fuel.Great info. I will be sure to look into those. Any other stove alternatives that include a build in wind screen? MSR makes those Reactor stoves. I like that idea of a self contained system like that. Or is liquid fuel just the preferred fuel choice? |
|
2 things in the montains of NE in winter.cold and wet..you can easy get above freezing temps, followed by WAY cold//-30 stuff |
|
Danyl Britts wrote: Thanks! Just trying to cover all my bases. Great info. I will be sure to look into those. Any other stove alternatives that include a build in wind screen? MSR makes those Reactor stoves. I like that idea of a self contained system like that. Or is liquid fuel just the preferred fuel choice?I'll say it again. BAD BAD recommendation for short trips. I believe both these sites writers have a fair amount of experience with butane stoves in harsh environments, specifically Northeast winters. But as Mark Chauvin points out, these systems are also used on Everest. You can make a hanging white gas stove, but it's far less safe and weights more than a butane. it's also messy. I've done both the vestibule white gas and the hanging butane and while both have pros and cons, the winner has always been the hanging butane stove. See here: chauvinguides.com/PresiTrav… and here: mountainvisions.blogspot.co… |
|
Mike Belu wrote:Everyone will have their own opinions. If I were going into a cold mountaineering scenario, here's what I would be taking/packing. This is what I own, and I don't claim to be an expert. Helmet Mountain hardwear power stretch balaclava Julbo glacier glasses Merino upper baselayer Patagonia r2 fleece First ascent light down vest, packs into own pocket Rab neo stretch hardshell - would probably take this instead of soft shell Outdoor research maestro puffy Bd guide gloves Knee high darn tough mountaineering socks-no liners Northface 3/4 length baselayer bottoms Outdoor research salvo pants Probably have some marmot waterproof pants in the pack, just in case.--depending on the approach and scenario. Have fun, MikeAwesome thanks for sharing the contents of your kit with me. Our guide gave some advice to wear a soft shell for majority of the trip and having a hard shell for more wet, colder or harsher conditions; Hard-shell's to consider; Rab Lotok, Arcteryx Alpha, or Mountain Hardware Quasar. Any other suggestions on hard-shells are appreciated Soft-shell's to consider; (*Scholler fabric seems like the best choice) Black Diamond Dawn Patrol* Marmot Zion Rab Vapour Rise Rab Stretch Neo Jacket Mammut Gipfelgrat jacket* Those both along with a nice puffy to keep everything toasty once the temp drops or wind picks up. john strand wrote:2 things in the montains of NE in winter.cold and wet..you can easy get above freezing temps, followed by WAY cold//-30 stuff No one system will cover all this all the time I really think things like moving fast and learning when to bail are essentialYes I completely agree, while no system is perfect, its about management and indeed knowing when to call it quits. |
|
mtnmandan wrote:As others said, you're pretty much on the right track. Your guide should be able to give you more help with everything, but I have a few specific suggestions. A 0 deg bag will work for the NE if you sleep warm. Otherwise, expect to wear some puffies to bed on the colder nights. Rather than getting a more expensive sleeping pad, a lot of people combine a pad like the BA insulated with a cheap/light foam pad. That way you've still got something if the inflatable pad punctures. Don't underestimate the wind, esp. in the Presidentials, but also on Katahdin. Any exposed skin will be extremely cold and vulnerable to frostbite. Regarding the balaclava, I'd get a thin one you'll wear 90% of the time, but I think a thick or windproof covering is necessary for ridgelines and summits. For mountaineering in the NE and greater ranges, double boots are relatively cheap, warm, and will still work when you want to climb ice. For mountaineering, cheap BD or CAMP axes and crampons work fine. However, I find that microspikes do a better job than crampons 90% of the time in New England. Mountain-tops frequently have rocks covered with rime-ice and crampons and bare boots both suck for traction. Finally, most companies that guide Denali have gear lists published online. The kit they use is remarkably similar for mountaineering in New England. I suggest looking through one of their list to see if there's any part of the system you've overlooked.The sleeping bag is a must purchase and Ive become accustomed to wearing puffies to sleep here in the winter while backpacking. Great info regarding the double pad tip. Ive always been apprehensive to bring the foam pad because of packing size for two pads, but in lieu of having a sled to carry things on a pad isnt much weight to add and hella comfort. The face protection is something I will need to work on. With dreadlocks down to my butt i could use some better head protection that will fit my massive hair. The technical gear I would rent my first time and then see what I prefer and what works nice as I play with different brands and styles. I thought when I got a backpacking kit, climbing kit and trad rack, I would be done dropping money on gear for a bit. Hah, I guessed wrong. J. Serpico wrote:20F bag without a bivy sack and vapor barrier isn't going to go far in Maine. With a vapor barrier and a bivy sack, it's probably good to 5F. But in the Northeast, you will encounter temps well below zero at times. My system is a vapor barrier, 0F down bag and a very light bivy sack. This can be modulated as necessary, but will keep you warm inside a tent to -25F and alive and well much colder. It's also functional outside the tent. I disagree on the JetBoil. While I do tend to carry white gas for longer trips, for a few nights, butane is superior. It's used at the high camps on Everest, and by some well known guide services on the Presidential Range in New Hampshire. Provided you know how to get the most out of the stove it is much simpler and more efficient than white gas stove. The best way to use such a stove is inside the tent as a hanging stove. A little pre warming of the canister inside your puffy or sleeping bag will give it enough warmth to fire up nice and clean. Once you get the stove going a little bit of warm water in a bowl touched to the bottom of the canister will keep it plenty warm. Or you can build a koozie for the canister and put a hand warmer into it. obviously there is some risk using a stove hanging inside the tents, however, there are many advantages to this system including being able to dry out some of your clothing/gear inside the tent and being able to take less clothing/sleeping gesr for sitting around camp. You also tend to eat and drink more while. Comfortably inside your warm tent and sleeping bag.Interesting food for thought. Yes the hanging kit in a tent is sort of dissuading but i can see all the reasons you would choose to do that inside. Thank you for the information and tip tricks. |
|
J. Serpico wrote: I'll say it again. BAD BAD recommendation for short trips. I believe both these sites writers have a fair amount of experience with butane stoves in harsh environments, specifically Northeast winters. But as Mark Chauvin points out, these systems are also used on Everest. You can make a hanging white gas stove, but it's far less safe and weights more than a butane. it's also messy. I've done both the vestibule white gas and the hanging butane and while both have pros and cons, the winner has always been the hanging butane stove. See here: chauvinguides.com/PresiTrav… and here: mountainvisions.blogspot.co…Thanks for the feedback, I will be sure to look through these links. |
|
Danyl Britts wrote: . With dreadlocks down to my butt i could use some better head protection that will fit my massive hair.Probably not your first choice but a pair of scissors will take care of those dreds... Although in all seriousness I can't imagine doing serious mountaineering with those. I imagine they'd just get wet and freeze, in which case they would probably break off... on Mt. Washington it is is quite common to end up with huge icicles hanging off you beard or eyelashes... I'm very interested to learn how you fair with that. Also don't they interfere with a helmet? |
|
+1 to anything Marc Chauvin might have to say. He's not messing about. |
|
Stagg54 wrote: Probably not your first choice but a pair of scissors will take care of those dreds... Although in all seriousness I can't imagine doing serious mountaineering with those. I imagine they'd just get wet and freeze, in which case they would probably break off... on Mt. Washington it is is quite common to end up with huge icicles hanging off you beard or eyelashes... I'm very interested to learn how you fair with that. Also don't they interfere with a helmet?WOW what information via those links man. Thanks! I would consider just buying the hanging kit for this trip and make a better investment in a more light weight and fuel efficient stove once I'm back. Trying to be sort of budget conscious with all the clothing and sleeping bag I need to purchase. Stagg54 wrote: Probably not your first choice but a pair of scissors will take care of those dreds... Although in all seriousness I can't imagine doing serious mountaineering with those. I imagine they'd just get wet and freeze, in which case they would probably break off... on Mt. Washington it is is quite common to end up with huge icicles hanging off you beard or eyelashes... I'm very interested to learn how you fair with that. Also don't they interfere with a helmet?Yea I have heard quite a bit of guff regarding my dreads and the idea of mountaineering with them. Grivel makes a helmet thats an XL size. We dont have too many places to try on a variety of helmets here. REI has a handful of styles but not many in my size. grivel.com/products/ice/hel… It would make sense, the dangers of having long, thick hair in wet/freezing conditions for prolonged periods of time. And the potential dangers of having one caught in a belay, or on rappel, both of which I have already experienced. That said, I have taken precautionary measures to prevent it from happening again. I've had them for just under a decade and now that they're THIS long, the consideration is weighing heavily in the trim or cut them off. I have accepted pulling them back and having them down my back under my jacket but I suppose it will take some experience with them to see just how much of a nuisance, or tolerable, they'll be. |
|
Dan, |
|
James Sweeney wrote: Dan, You might consider the Potomac Mountaineering Club They're in your area and look like they could be a good resource for you. There's also Coldthistle for all things alpine (clothing and gear)Second the Potomac Mt. Club. They are good guys. |
|
James Sweeney wrote: Dan, You might consider the Potomac Mountaineering Club They're in your area and look like they could be a good resource for you. There's also Coldthistle for all things alpine (clothing and gear) Stagg54 wrote: Second the Potomac Mt. Club. They are good guys.Awesome thanks for the information. Coldthistle does have a boatload of information I will be sure to use. |
|
UPDATE: |