Favorite crack shoes... revive

O.L.D.S.A.G. wrote: I'm beginning to really like the slippers. They do fine on sport routes too. Too bad 5.10 discontinued them. Why do they do that? They come out with a product for one season and then it's discontinued. Supermoccs, copperheads, grandstones...

They still make the Anasazi moccasym...

Taylor I believe oldsag is referring to the stoneland slippers maybe? I'm not sure if 5.10 discontinued them or not. Either way I hope the stoneland vcs are around for years.

DoNstamos wrote:Taylor I believe oldsag is referring to the stoneland slippers maybe? I'm not sure if 5.10 discontinued them or not. Either way I hope the stoneland vcs are around for years.

I see, judging by the sale prices you can get them online for I'd assume they have discontinued the stoneland Nov.

What's with that?! 5.10/ Adidas. Used to be cool.

Bump, I'm curious what others have to say about shoes like the anasazi pinks, mocs, evolv addicts, astroman, TC pro's, mythos, the new scarps technos or any other shoe. Like how they do well/poorly? how did you size them? were your toes ever so slightly curled/cramped or did they have room to breathe?

Hard to beat the Anasazi line, I have a pair of Moccs for splitters and slabs and VCS for everything else

There is no single best crack shoe; it varies based on the size of the crack. Of course, what works for you will be a little different from what works for me, as your hand size won't be identical to mine. But these basic principles will hold, I think, for everyone.

I'll break my preferences down by the size of the crack through the crux section. I'll also give a few example climbs where relevant.

- Fingers and smaller:
Whatever tight pair of shoes fit you really well, providing some sensitivity and also power. Whatever you would wear for hard climbing that involves minimal crack, and fits you really well. The idea here is that you want to be able to maximize the use of every feature on the rock, many of which probably will not be the crack itself. For me, this is the anasazi VCS sized pretty tight.

- Borderline between fingers and ringlocks:
Shoeless with taped toes. If the crux is big enough you can get toes in there, but not shoes, this is the way to go. Two examples:
Johnny Cat
Swedin-Ringle

- Ringlocks to tight hands:
Supermoccs (preferably with original rubber) sized (after they stretch) so your toes are flat but snug. For me, there are a few climbs where I can just fit these shoes in, and no other shoe. On such routes, it literally feels two letter grades easier. Example: Quarter of a Man

- Good hands:
Whatever is comfortable for you, sized snug with flat toes. If you're new to crack climbing - something with a good bit of stiffness to the rand may help. Something lined also may help. Both of these may reduce the pain of learning to really weight your feet.

- Big hands, fists, and bigger:
Here is where ankle protection, a stiff midsole, and a tough and durable shoe are what's most important. For me, this is the TC Pro.

Hope that helps,

GO

nice lay out dude, I don't know if I could go shoeless though ha

Gabe, how did you tape for shoeless crack ascents?

I'm also curious if anyone here has practiced bare feet jamming of fingers and tip jams. How did it work out? I know it sounds painful, but with practice, maybe it could be bearable.

Toe crack

Fist crack

The big issue with barefoot is that it has such a narrow range where it works. I have never taped my toes but I have climbed lots of .75 cracks barefoot. It does work.

If the route has a finger crack start though, you'll never get to the ringlocks barefoot. Optimator is a great example.

It's such a one-off trick that I've never counted it as a legitimate tool in my bag of tricks. I've also never counted a "send" I did barefoot. It is so much easier that it sure feels like cheating.

For me, a pair of Evolve Defy sized flat and with extra rubber on the upper can't be beat. They (all of evolve do this) turn to mush in a few days but in cracks, especially splitters in sandstone, this is exactly what I want. They don't have the lace issue of Mythos and the velcro makes them less sloppy than Moccs.

I have the new Scarpa Technos, and they've been great so far. As a multipitch/all-day shoe, they performed very nicely at Lumpy Ridge. Very comfortable when sized to street shoe size.

The soles are vibram xs-edge, and it does the job--not the stickiest but fine.

They are pretty stiff and flat, and edge very nicely. If you're into that, I'd recommend them.

For hard, sporty routes, I go with something else, but I really like them as an all around shoe.

nicelegs wrote:The big issue with barefoot is that it has such a narrow range where it works...It's such a one-off trick that I've never counted it as a legitimate tool in my bag of tricks.

Exactly, along with taping for sizes, which also wouldn't work for varying size crack, you've basically dumbed down the route instead of actually learning to crack climb that size, in which case, you might as well just aid the route.

i used to use the sportiva katanas for cracks until the straps wore through, but they weren't too great for smearing. then i stopped having money and bought the cheapest shoe i could, which was the evolv addict. holy shit, i am never looking back, great for jams, smears, edging, and just about anything but small pockets. i definitely think evolv is on the up and up from what they used to be

Nick Dolhyj 1 wrote:i used to use the sportiva katanas for cracks until the straps wore through, but they weren't too great for smearing. then i stopped having money and bought the cheapest shoe i could, which was the evolv addict. holy shit, i am never looking back, great for jams, smears, edging, and just about anything but small pockets. i definitely think evolv is on the up and up from what they used to be

Steph Davis helped design it. I was bummed because unlike Five Ten Mocs, the sizing is way off for me and I could not even fit my feet in there even at 3 sizes bigger! Anyone else have any thoughts on the fit of the shoe?

nicelegs wrote:The big issue with barefoot is that it has such a narrow range where it works. I have never taped my toes but I have climbed lots of .75 cracks barefoot. It does work. If the route has a finger crack start though, you'll never get to the ringlocks barefoot. Optimator is a great example. It's such a one-off trick that I've never counted it as a legitimate tool in my bag of tricks. I've also never counted a "send" I did barefoot. It is so much easier that it sure feels like cheating. For me, a pair of Evolve Defy sized flat and with extra rubber on the upper can't be beat. They (all of evolve do this) turn to mush in a few days but in cracks, especially splitters in sandstone, this is exactly what I want. They don't have the lace issue of Mythos and the velcro makes them less sloppy than Moccs.

Thanks.

I've done hand-sized cracks and face climbs barefoot, and just judge the experience to be a different type of climbing. With practice and the right type of rock, it can be fun.

I've just never tried a thin crack though. It would be neat if it would allow me to do a crack I couldn't otherwise do -- but I wouldn't call it aid or cheating, just a different climbing experience that requires slightly different skills. To my view, cheating doesn't exist in climbing, just lying. Make it up the rock in your own (non-destructive) way, have fun, and just be honest about it.

O.L.D.S.A.G. wrote: Steph Davis helped design it. I was bummed because unlike Five Ten Mocs, the sizing is way off for me and I could not even fit my feet in there even at 3 sizes bigger! Anyone else have any thoughts on the fit of the shoe?

I tried on a size 10.5 (street shoe 10.5), and couldn't even get my foot in them.

Hands/fists/OW: TC Pro
Hands, thin hands, slabbier moderate routes: Mocs
Fingers/thin/techy laybacks: Something precise because you're often using small foot holds beside the crack and not actually jamming the crack itself. Something like Anasazi pink/VCS, Miura, whatever fits you best here

I recently got my hands on some Scarpa Techno Xs, which I'm liking quite a bit. They edge a hell of a lot better than Mocs, jam well. Smearing is OK. I'm not the biggest fan of the XSEdge rubber, but in general they're a very well made shoe that is excellent for trad climbing. Toe profile is not as narrow as the moc but still pretty good.

Mocs, TC pros, and techno Xs are all great choices. They each have their pros/cons. All can be worn all day if sized correctly.

Mocs are super soft and comfy when broken in. Smear and jam thin cracks very well. Poor edging.

TC pros are very insensitive if you ask me. Smear poorly. But they jam well and edge well. I guess I'm used to softer shoes however and I wasn't enamored by the TC pro like many are. That being said I've worn them plenty. I've since had mine resoled with 5.10 rubber and I think this is an upgrade.

Techno X is somewhere in between. More sensitive than the TC pro, stiffer and edge better than the Moc. Well made shoe.

I wear an 11 street shoe in most brands.

-Size 10 moc is comfy when broken in (doesn't take long to break in). No excess volume really, they're just soft enough to be super comfy. They will stretch a ton. More than any other shoe I've worn.
-44 Techno X which has my toes almost flat but right at the edge of the shoe. Good balance of comfort/performance. I haven't worn them a ton yet but they haven't really stretched
-10.5 Anasazi VCS and verdes. they don't stretch really.
-43 TC Pro and this is quite a comfortable fit with flat toes for jamming and wearing all day

I don't like super tight uncomfortable shoes and I don't climb very hard (only leading 5.10 cracks), so take that into consideration.

For the evolv sizing record the addict is the only evolv shoe that doesn't fit me well,every other evolv shoe is my street size. Greg come out here and help me free climb this roof crack I found!! Mark is already in a shoulder sling ;). His evolve addicts are just sitting there.

Jon Nelson wrote:Gabe, how did you tape for shoeless crack ascents? I'm also curious if anyone here has practiced bare feet jamming of fingers and tip jams. How did it work out? I know it sounds painful, but with practice, maybe it could be bearable.

I'll answer your second question first: For tips and fingers, you will not be able to do anything with your bare feet in the crack, as your toes are wider than your fingers. Instead, you will do a combination of smearing the edges of the crack, toeing down into pods, and using other features; all of which will work better with shoes.

With that said - if there's a climb where the fingers part is (relatively) easy, and the crux involves feet in a .5 camalot crack, I would absolutely choose the barefoot approach. I can't think of any examples of that particular scenario, but the same principle holds true for any climbs with a distinct .5 camalot crux.

I'll give two really good examples.

BETA SPOILER ALERT! Do not read the next two paragraphs if you don't want crux beta on Johnny Cat or Swedin Ringle.

Johnny Cat has lots of features for feet until the crux. Those features would be easier to use with shoes, but the climbing is relatively easy. Then the features run out for several moves of pure ringlocks. So it's worth turning the beginning that might feel like 5.10+/11- with shoes into solid 5.11- without shoes, in order to turn the crux 11+ (with shoes) into 11/11- without.

Swedin Ringle doesn't have so many features, but the beginning is wider (hands to thin hands), so it's relatively easy. Then the last five feet to clip the chains is good fingers, while your feet drop to .5 camalot. If you can get your feet in the crack for those last few feet it's well worth making the beginning a touch harder.

Some other climbs might be more borderline - where the lack of shoes would be more of an even trade-off. Then it's a matter of preference. Sometimes I like climbing shoeless just for fun.

Regarding how to tape for shoeless crack ascents: I don't do anything fancy, just a strip around each toe, and then one spiral around the front of the foot:

Taping feet for ringlock to thin-hand sized crack

As for whether a shoeless ascent is cheating - sure, in a way, it is. In the same sense that choosing a pair of shoes that is best for a particular single-pitch climb is cheating. I mean, on an alpine ascent, you've got one pair of rock shoes that had better do everything. But single-pitch cragging is not alpine, and I think it's fair to say that the same rules do not apply. So I do (more or less) count shoeless ascents as valid.

GO