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Static v. Semi-static for big wall hauling

Original Post
jody · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2006 · Points: 5

Hi All,

Does anyone have experience using a semi-static rope for hauling on walls? Is it remarkably inefficient (especially for not having the added value of being a back up lead line)?

Thanks- appreciate any insights.

Jfriday1 · · Golden, CO · Joined Jun 2012 · Points: 40

I'm curious about this as well.

JohnnyG · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 10

I've used static ropes many times and old lead lines (dynamic) many times, and I don't think there is a huge amount of difference. Except the old lead lines are free. Yes, with the dynamic ropes you have to take up the stretch in the rope more than with static ropes, but it's not really that much extra work. The reduced efficiency is inconsequential.

So I suppose semi-dynamic would be right in the middle. That is, any would be fine.

Have fun.

Dave Bn · · Boise, ID · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 10

I understand that ropes are sold as "Semi" static? But isn't semi-static a contradiction in term's? The rope is either static or dynamic, not much grey area there.

Otherwise it's kind of like a woman being semi-pregnant or a vehicle having "partial zero" emissions.

God I'm bored.

Noah Haber · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 78
Dave Bn wrote:I understand that ropes are sold as "Semi" static? But isn't semi-static a contradiction in term's? The rope is either static or dynamic, not much grey area there. Otherwise it's kind of like a woman being semi-pregnant or a vehicle having "partial zero" emissions. God I'm bored.
There is no such thing as a fully static rope. It does not exist. All ropes stretch to some degree. It's all grey area. That is why they are called semi-static.
Craig Childre · · Lubbock, TX · Joined Aug 2006 · Points: 4,860
shoo wrote: There is no such thing as a fully static rope. It does not exist. All ropes stretch to some degree. It's all grey area. That is why they are called semi-static.
Steel rope! ;) I do understand what you are saying. Our 100m static line stretches about 5-10' feet depending on the load.

To the OP's question. The benefit of a static line is felt when you are jugging the line, like using the Tx frog system, or sit stand. Hauling should see little or no change. I would use an older lead line, so it could back up the primary lead line should it get damaged.
David Coley · · UK · Joined Oct 2013 · Points: 70

Jody,
From multipitchclimbing.com
Chapter 10

(This is more about fixed lies for descent, but much the same applies to haul lines. In short, the"static" ropes used by climbers for fixed lines or hauling are really "semi-static"; for hauling semi-static or dynamic works fine; if you plan to jug the haul line a semi-static is best.)

  • **What is a static rope?*****

Many climbers use old climbing ropes for fixed lines and most of the time this is an adequate solution, however is isn’t the best solution. Dynamic climbing ropes are not very abrasion resistant, most are only 60m long and they stretch under bodyweight. This stretch means that if the line is prusiked or jugged it will rub up and down on any sharp edge, and this combined with the lack of abrasion resistance can lead to a damaged rope or worse. Although stretch can be an issue when abseiling, the real issue is when jugging as this creates more up and down motion.

In aid climbing it is normal to jug the climbing rope. However, it is normally only jugged by one or two people before it is moved, therefore it is unlikely to rub on the next pitch in exactly the same place. The leader will also be very aware of any sharp edges etc. as she will have led over them, whereas when you throw a fixed line down a cliff, you might not know about the sharp-edged roof 10m below. Hence if you plan on jugging a line several times, the rock might be sharp, or think that others will be rapping the line all day long, use a static and protect the rope using gaffa tape on sharp edges or a rope protector.

For fixed lines climbers use ropes that conform to EN 1891. Such ropes might best be termed semi-static as you will still feel some bounce. This makes them safer in any situation where they might be dynamically loaded. For example, you drop a haul bag attached to one, or part of the rap anchor fails. (More truly static ropes are apparently used by the military for abseiling out of helicopters etc.) There are two forms of EN 1891: A and B. Type B ropes have reduced slippage of the sheath therefore in theory less bunching of the sheath when abseiling. The minimum static strength of type A ropes is however higher (12kN for Type B, with termination, versus 15kN for Type A). EN1891 contains a dynamic test on a 2m length of line with figure eight knots at each end. A drop of 0.60m is completed five times. The rope must produce an impact force of <6kN in all five falls when the test mass is 80kg for Type B and 100kg for Type A. For both A and B, static extension should be not more than 5% with a 150kg mass.

In practice type B ropes are lighter, and in climbing it does normally matter which is used for fixed lines.

If when you buy it, the sheath of your static line doesn’t seem to be well bonded to the core, and the rope feels about as supple as a normal climbing rope, throw it in a bath or bucket of cold water for an hour, weighting it to keep it submerged, and then dry it somewhere warm but in the shade. This will shrink the sheath down onto the core and make it harder wearing.
Moof · · Portland, OR · Joined Dec 2007 · Points: 25

The more stretch you have, the harder it is to "bounce" the haul bags off a lip or other snag. Otherwise I've had no complaints using a dynamic line instead of a static one for hauling.

20 kN · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2009 · Points: 1,346
shoo wrote: That is why they are called semi-static.
No it is not. Static and semi-static are not the same thing. Semi-static (AKA low stretch) ropes are used in caving, and they are rated to hold low-impact falls under FF1. Semi-static, dynamic and full static ropes all have separate UIAA certifications. Three rope types, three certifications.

Here is an example of a semi-static rope:

edelweiss-ropes.com/en/rope…

In fact, I use that exact rope for wall climbing. It is much more dynamic than true static rope, but far less dynamic than a real dynamic rope. I have not had any problem using semi static for hauling, and it stretches less than you might think.

If you want a rope that is really static, go with the ABC 100% polyester static rope. I did a 350' freehanging rap on 3/8" ABC polyester static, and when I reached the bottom and stood up, the rope only stretched about 1' back to length.
David Coley · · UK · Joined Oct 2013 · Points: 70
20 kN wrote: No it is not. Static and semi-static are not the same thing.
Hi, just to clear this up in my head, and possibly others, is it true that the only "static" ropes we ever use in climbing, including hauling pigs, are always "semi-static". And hence very, very few of us will have ever even have seen a true static rope? And that when a climbing shop advertises a rope as static, it is always semi-static (ignoring spectra-type etc.) cord?

Thanks.
Noah Haber · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 78

ALL ROPES, regardless of material (spectra, steel, nylon, carbon nanotubes, bungee cord, literally anything) have SOME amount of stretch to it. It may be extremely small, but it exists. Different weaves and constructions of rope will change the stretchiness properties of same or similar materials.

The confusion comes from the "official" language used by UIAA and other organizations. There are designations of "static," "semi-static," and "dynamic" ropes, depending on the amount of stretch. In some sense, calling a rope "static" is nonsensical, because they too stretch some, but much less than what we call "dynamic" ropes.

Edit to add: Thanks 20kn, for the correction that there is a difference between the official designations of static and semi-static.

Kevin DeWeese · · @failfalling - Oakland, Ca · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 981

Both work fine. Use what you have rather than buying a new static or Semi static for hauling. You will notice a difference when jugging (only an issue when using the haul line as a fixing rope but even that's not an issue unless there's a sharp edge - use rope protectors and the issue is moot)

The problem some are having is confusing the definition of the word "static" with the way static is used as a term in defining how much the rope stretches under force/load. Since we're talking about rope, the meaning of the word is irrelevant. Static rope stretches x amount, semi static stretches y amount and dynamic stretches z amount. Many gyms use semi static for their TR setups so that might help some people.

20 kN · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2009 · Points: 1,346
David Coley wrote: is it true that the only "static" ropes we ever use in climbing, including hauling pigs, are always "semi-static".
The opposite actually. Low stretch ropes are far less common than static ropes. Tons of companies make static ropes, but many fewer make low stretch ropes. The easiest way to identify a low stretch rope is to look for the UIAA FF1 falls held, and the impact force @ 0.3FF. Low stretch ropes should have this spec, static ropes will not.

Yes it is true no rope is 100% static. Even steel cable has some elongation which must be factored in when engineers build suspension bridges. However, we are not talking about "static" ropes under the notion that they are 100% static, we are talking about them using the nomenclature supplied by the industry—static rope.

I would venture to guess most climbers would not be able to correctly identify a low stretch rope vs a static rope in the field if they were not asked to (e.g. is the left or right rope static?). However, for climbing this does not really matter. The only time you probably really need low stretch instead of static is if you are using it for what the low stretch spec was made for—caving.

I have seen the terms "static" and "semi-static" used incorrectly many times. Many retailers call low stretch caving ropes static when technically they are not. I wouldent be concerned with the terms. The specifications of the rope will indicate if it is low stretch or static.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Big Wall and Aid Climbing
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