Re a CT question (edited)

Establish a governing body?

Establish a Smart placement approval committee.

Ask rgold, Henry Barber, R Romano, R, Gottlieb (all staunch anti bolt ?)
to be part of the governing body/ committee.

Anchors on vertical ground ?

Small problem ken ?ichols? possible others ?

Crowd source the funding ,

paid to climb areas ?

Short cliff anchors?

Any thing that the anti bolters have to offer ?

No FA credit take out any ego s

Good Ideas ?

If you bring a bolter and an antibolter together the result is the conversion of mass to energy with 100% efficiency.

I am not for or against bolts
The ability to get a consensus through this and other resources has made this topic worth revisiting

jeff lebowski wrote:If you bring a bolter and an antibolter together the result is the conversion of mass to energy with 100% efficiency.

This made my day! Thanks buddy!

So I take it you're raising the CT bolting issue in an objective, non-biased sense for the good that will surely come from another round of unemotional, open-minded discussion?

edit - Whoa, OP deleted his rant (below) in the time it took for me to type this.

Michael S wrote:
How to lead(BITD) in this backwards climbing state where the rust and disintegrating nylon is clipped without back up, in an ongoing game of Russian roulette.
Leads were accomplished with hooks taped to flakes and edges, counter-weighted with kite sting tied to sand bags; weights on the ground, to keep downward pull on the “pro”.

Some times a single multi-directional placement low on a climb was tied off with multiple such strings, which crossed the rock in a web of useless death defying “protection”? That a teenager weighing a pre pubescent hundred pounds could not count on.

I soloed a lot, as did many others rather than drag trampolines and beds to the base of target climbs.

The main protagonist of this crap was Ken Nichols, infamous for sledge hammering bolts and destroying climbs. He and I are not acquainted.

I have used these tactics that I described in the past. So I can speak to the stupidity of the methods from actual experience. As one climbed past these rigs the people on the ground were often as much catchers as a belayer, the idea was to keep a falling climbers’ head upright to make contact with the ground last after limbs snapped being ineffective shock absorbers.

Tasked with risking all, if the flight path could be interrupted before the ground by the belayer hurling himself off the hillside stance Shock loading the system, ripping the tapped ( I cheated and used glue) hooks.

Risking injury to himself and leaving both parties, belayer and climber and any witnesses, now in shock over what they had seen, stuck, injured and in need of rescue.

Any one want to climb greasy 5.11+ in the style of the first ass ent?

HI Michael- if you are interested in finding out some more details about our work in the state re: fixed protection I'd be happy to discuss with you.

The basics are that there are areas in the state of CT where the use of fixed protection for climbing has been explicitly allowed on state property. There are other areas where it is tolerated and there are areas where I was told the issue was brought up and the park managers said it was not legal. Each State Park and Forest is managed by a local office and they are the one which make the decision about climbing and gear. Hartford made a concerted effort to strip climbing out of all statues and documentation in 2007 and doesn't want to acknowledge that it occurs in the state even though it bring in revenue.

The dialogue has been brought up many times before, and many times recently. Most folks in the state are okay with some level of fixed protection on our cliffs (whether anchors to mitigate environ impacts or for protection). There are only 1 or maybe 2/3 people in the state that would physically smash and remove bolts. We are hoping one is dead soon. I would also recommend speaking with Al Carili as he conducted a survey in state recently and has been looking at resorting historical hardware on the cliffs in CT so they can be as they were for their FAs. Main cliff however has been FUBAR'd by the RMF unfortunately and I don't think anyone can replace hardware there even if it was placed on the FA while a metal plaque chizzel and glued at the base remains untouched.

Also its a little tough to figure out exactly what you are trying to state in this and other posts since you're not writing in proper English. May I suggest using full sentences and proper English/abbreviations and elaborate a little more on your ideas? I think i get some of what you're stating above and you've got some good ideas but I'm not really sure what your trying to get at...

Thanks for the kind word on your blog too!

Morgan Patterson wrote: Most folks in the state are okay with some level of fixed protection on our cliffs (whether anchors to mitigate environ impacts or for protection). There are only 1 or maybe 2/3 people in the state that would physically smash and remove bolts. We are hoping one is dead soon.

I advocate installing about 6 bolts with quick draws on the back of his grave.

It's sad how a handful of morons can drive an entire state, spilling into other states, into the dark ages for so long... Yet people will still climb with Mr. Pajama bottoms himself.

Thank you gunkiemike

Morgan,

I had to read the 12 pages "bolt ethics CT" or what ever it is
,
I had no idea ! and that’s why I posted this.

Know this, my sub standard writing style aside, I am willing to try and help
.
Please lets change Connecta chopp to Connecta clip!/;-D

I think that there are climbing areas that have established rules that work to balance Environ. Safety and fun.
If those places can be used as examples to show the powers that be what it is that we are hoping to do
here in CT may be we can get some where...

you have already done a lot, thanks for that and keeping at
it must be driving you crazy
.
Good Grief what do the Gyms And stores in Hartford say ... The university outing clubs are the historic start of United States climbing not to mention all the other history.

this is really just a sad state of affairs
.
I know now that I am very late to the party.

I have Said so Before and now here again this site and the work you have put into it is great

Thank you

Michael Schneider wrote:Please lets change Connecta chopp to Connecta clip!/;-D

I'll take Connecta-leave-my-shit-alone-and-go-climb... lol

Thanks for the encouraging words. I'd be glad to have any help. There's a lot of people from various generations who are looking to change the status quo in state but unfortunately we've got some pretty major hurdles. Below is the list in my mind.

1. Establishing a new 501c3 or registering CCC as 501c3
2. Finding support groups with like interests like MTB and others
3. Creating historical climbing report for CT and some like scenarios
4. Finding legislative or political support to present/push issue
5. Some organized presentation to the State
6. Pursuit of legislation to resolve any liability or fixed gear issues (something like the 2007 statue adapted to include bolting would be great)
7. Formation of a committee or some adopted standards for fixed gear placements

THE big issue though is getting organized and then finding a way to engage Hartford DEEP offices in a constructive manner. The current head of SP wants nothing NOTHING to do with climbers... soooo that makes it all very difficult. He didn't even know when I spoke to him that SP like Black Rock State Park explicity prohibit climbing while Sleeping Giant allowed it. He had no idea that the Town of New Haven was conducting summer climbing programs at West Rock State Park. All this was news to him and he is running the show. Doesn't inspire any confidence. The result is most people have just ignored hartford and gone about doing what they want. Chopping have continued but progress is still pushign forward and new stuff keeps being developed despite clear guidance from hartford DEEP.

Personally, I'd like to see the State acquire some land to create a massive new climbing area which would draw people in from all over New England. I have the location just need the players. It would be an incredible acquisition for an LCO... would be nationwide climber news.

Morgan to the question you asked NO. I was not able to go looking that way is it a place that Ken might go ? Never really go any where near the areas that might be that persons' hide out, so if I see granby on a map I think with my luck I might run into him, some thing that I dred.

the thing is I went to Farmington looking for rock there I found some stuff behind
a quarry I did some searching around looking for established climbs .this was last weekend when it rained in the afternoon. I did not really climb although I did set a big square top rope rig that let me try two or three silly easy things that were dirty and not worth the effort .

This weekend I will be going to Stamford the only thing that I will have time for is The Lord And Taylor parking lot 'bus stop' rock

also the Schriebner road rock ? It is a big split boulder, it is hard to get a good picture.
Inside the split is a thin crack, with Van Hallen graffiti tag. At the top of the crack is an old fixed rup.
Across from the graffiti, the opposite side of the slot or chasm I climbed up from the horizontal finger crack (wet first hold I hate that)
You should check this thing out It is obvious that it has been climbed and has potential I'll try to post a pic or two

Ha! I am sure as hell not a candidate for that committee.

And I am not "staunch anti-bolt" either. If you take a complex perspective about the appropriate use of bolts and reduce it to a catch-phrase, you're just constructing a straw-man for people to take pot-shots at while the real issues escape consideration.

Michael Schneider wrote: This weekend I will be going to Stamford the only thing that I will have time for is The Lord And Taylor parking lot 'bus stop' rock

HA! I know this rock well... I've driven by soooo many times growing up and wondered if anyone actually got out to that thing with their shoes and some chalk to climb the thin crack in it. V2/3?

Why not just go to Mianus (Greenwich side) and climb the cliffs in the parking lot?

I know it is a sad that I admit it

and not fun when cars Honk and trucks honk and people yell stuff too

This,the above sentence, is very much like a line from an old Little Feat song,
that was playing on my walkman when I first climbed it climbed it, pre-'80

bare with me I'm going to see what if any old pics are around they won't be mine as the family that I stayed with in stamford (why I had shoes, EB's s)with me on days when I was getting to their house the night before going to the Gunks.
I was back on it in 07or08 1st showing off as a kid then showing off for the kids

Michael Schneider wrote:and not fun when cars Honk and trucks honk and people yell stuff too

I can only imagine... lol. I love little feat... you'll have to figure out which song and name that problem!

I don't climb anywhere where you'd see KN... I know he did visit one crag I frequent in the 80's once and did a climb there.