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Definition Debate: What is 'Trad Climbing'?

J. Serpico · · Saratoga County, NY · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 140

Ground up, onsight in it's purest form for the average weekend warrior climber.

Scott McMahon · · Boulder, CO · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 1,425

How do you know it's raining in Colorado...when threads like this pop up.

haha everytime the weather is crappy.

Chris Massey · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2012 · Points: 5

Overheard at the Red River Gorge (true story):

Climber on gear protected route in possession of his partner's shiny new rack of active and passive pro: "Dude what do I do?"

Partner: "Dude I gave you the Trad. Just put the Trad in the rock as you climb up and clip it."

You cant make this stuff up. BTW, I dont think they were from Boulder. Jersey maybe.

Thomas Stryker · · Chatham, NH · Joined Aug 2014 · Points: 250

It's hard to believe anyone is confused about this.

Jon Zucco · · Denver, CO · Joined Aug 2008 · Points: 245

trad is rad.

Eliot Augusto · · Lafayette, CO · Joined Dec 2013 · Points: 60
Blommerz wrote:" In the end, all you have to answer to is your own ego, pride, and integrity. If you lie about what you've done, or if you do everything in "poor style" everyone else will have forgotten those little details about what you've climbed long before you will. " Ummmm not quite. When route development and FA's are involved, your statement doesn't quite hold water. People care!
If you're putting up routes or claiming FA's, there is a REALLY good chance you don't have to ask the question of what trad is.

As to the question at hand: Trad is climbing and placing the gear on lead(or following and cleaning). Fixed pins or a bolt in the middle of a blank slab, or even fixed anchors still fits the idea of trad climbing to me. Half the route being protected by fixed gear is a mixed climb.

Or, you could always call yourself a climber and stop caring what everyone else says is the status quo.
Ryan Watts · · Bishop, CA · Joined Apr 2013 · Points: 25

I may not have put up any bold FAs or really even any bold leads, but I have watched almost all of the videos on the "Post Awesome Trad Movies Here" thread so I feel I am qualified to answer.

Trad:

1) Find a climb that is hard. This can be either an FA or a sport route, doesn't matter -- you will be pulling the bolts after you send anyways.

2) Ruthlessly wire the climb on toprope/bolts and make sure to check out gear placements as well. If the gear is sketchy -- just dial that section until you can pretty much solo it. You will still want to place the brassies, ball nuts, etc. when you lead it so people know how rad you are -- but you definitely don't want to fall on that shit.

3) Climb the route, either placing the gear on lead or clipping gear you placed on rappel, as you prefer. Pins are fine too -- just don't clip any bolts. Make sure you get video of the feat so you can spray about it on the internet.

4) Now that you have sent the route in true trad style, pull the bolts if they were any. This is mostly for spray factor but it also helps keep less ethically pure climbers from repeating your bold send.

Idk what this "ground up" nonsense is but it sounds to me like an excuse for not climbing hard / being old.

Monomaniac · · Morrison, CO · Joined Oct 2006 · Points: 17,295
Chris Massey wrote:Who cares? Does anybody on this site actually climb? I bet these guys were not sitting around discussing questions like this. Go out and do your own thing. Call it whatever you want.
Have you ever been to Camp 4? All they do there is sit around criticizing other people's style. John Bachar was known to hide in the bushes watching visitors climb (like Wofgang Gullich, Todd Skinner, Alan Watts) to make sue they weren't ground up hangdogging.

In those days, when you fell you were supposed to immediately lower to the ground, preferably with your eyes closed, so you couldn't accidentally get any beta while hanging from the rope.

To echo David, how many "trad" climbs are done that way today? All the top end "trad" climbing done today would be conidered a travesty against purity in the 70s.
Jason Todd · · Cody, WY · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 1,114

Two pages and no one jumped on the "trad" is more "green" than "sport" pony yet.

scott s smith · · Ketchum, ID · Joined Jun 2010 · Points: 0

most "traditional" routes can be climbed using a strict "leave no trace" policy. Sport climbing does not offer that opportunity.

Jason Todd · · Cody, WY · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 1,114
scott s smith wrote:most "traditional" routes can be climbed using a strict "leave no trace" policy. Sport climbing does not offer that opportunity.
Devil's Tower used to have abundant plant life and associated ecosystems in most of its crack systems before it got "tradded" up. Just by being there we leave a trace.
Derek Barnes · · Ventura · Joined Aug 2014 · Points: 15
Monomaniac wrote: All the top end "trad" climbing done today would be conidered a travesty against purity in the 70s.
How many teams bust Freerider throughout the season these days? I think people in the 70's would be blown away by the stuff going on today.
scott s smith · · Ketchum, ID · Joined Jun 2010 · Points: 0

Mentioning LNT pretty much shut down the conversation. Feeling guilty about your 'footprint'?

Jason Todd · · Cody, WY · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 1,114

Definitely not feeling guilty about my footprint, I'm just honest about it.

Trail erosion due to a walk off off the top of a trad climb has a greater ecological impact than a pair of bolts and rings to rap off. I'm just not buying your assertion that most trad climbs can be climbed using a strict LNT policy.

good pro · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2014 · Points: 25

Chris is right on here y'all. I doubt if anybody on MP isn't actually just too scared to climb.

Anonymous · · Unknown Hometown · Joined unknown · Points: 0
Jason Todd wrote:Definitely not feeling guilty about my footprint, I'm just honest about it. Trail erosion due to a walk off off the top of a trad climb has a greater ecological impact than a pair of bolts and rings to rap off. I'm just not buying your assertion that most trad climbs can be climbed using a strict LNT policy.
Agree the bolts cause alot less harm to the environment than anything else we really do climbing and placing gear. I still prefer doing stuff myself cause it feels alot more on the edge than the safety of bolts. (i do sport climb harder than trad though so it just depends on my mood for the day)
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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