Do you stick clip? Why or why not?

Kevin,
If you're "sport climbing" and you complete the CRUX on TR, aren't you TR-ING?
However if you're protecting a 10a move (off the ground) to get to a 10c crux, shouldn't you be a 10c climber to complete the route?
I'm not saying I'm against projecting. I'm not saying I'm against stickclipping. I'm just saying I don't use one.
-Mackley

I've never used a stick clip and I don't know how? I only climb splitters.

Robbie Mackley wrote:Kevin, If you're "sport climbing" and you complete the CRUX on TR, aren't you TR-ING? However if you're protecting a 10a move (off the ground) to get to a 10c crux, shouldn't you be a 10c climber to complete the route? I'm not saying I'm against projecting. I'm not saying I'm against stickclipping. I'm just saying I don't use one. -Mackley

I don't agree with this. I am not a 10c climber, but I've lead one. It was the right day, the sun and the moon aligned, and it was the right route. And it definitely wasn't a project.

In regards to your other post, trad climbing is climbing too. But there's a whole lot of protecting.

Also, how would you classify someone reaching high to clip the bolt in the middle/top of the crux? In effect the stick clip and reaching high are the same, even if the intention isn't.

Robbie Mackley wrote:Kevin, If you're "sport climbing" and you complete the CRUX on TR, aren't you TR-ING? However if you're protecting a 10a move (off the ground) to get to a 10c crux, shouldn't you be a 10c climber to complete the route? I'm not saying I'm against projecting. I'm not saying I'm against stickclipping. I'm just saying I don't use one. -Mackley

you stick clip to protect against ground falls, not to avoid difficult (or easy) moves. sport climbing is meant to be relatively safe. i've known people who broke ankles/legs because a hold broke before the first bolt.

1. High clipping and stick clipping= not the same.
High clipping happens on lead, and in some cases actually increases ground fall potential. Which is why I also try to avoid it whenever possible.
Stick clipping, mostly happens from the deck. This certainly decreases ground fall potential in all cases.

2. I never said anyone used a stick clip to " avoid" moves of any difficulty. Although I'm positive it actually happens all the time.
-Mackley
Added: The "climbing not protecting" comment was more of a toung in cheek joke, which is why it's followed by a comment about feeling warm and fuzzy when I make the first clip.

Having this discussion kinda pisses me off. I usually avoid routes that have this issue because sport climbing like everyone above is saying should not have ground fall hazard, so it seems like poor route making. But if you want to climb bolted routes at Smith and be safe you may be stick clipping. Some of this results from much erosion, but also old school routes that have large spaces between bolts all the way up the route.

If the route was put in ground up then no stick clip.

If the route was put in top down then fine, stick clip, whatever.

The experience that a stick clip can rob you of is defined by the FAist, not by subsequent ascensionists.

huh?

If mulch has been added to the base of the route it cannot be truly repeated. You have to remove the mulch to the exact FA conditions. If the base has been eroded there is new rock to climb so the fa just didn't wait long enough. So don't be a Dumass. Use your stick clip.

I personally prefer not to because I think the risk is part of the challenge of the climb. I'd just as soon toprope it if I think it's that sketchy. That's not to say I haven't accepted a preclipped rope if someone already had it set up but it always makes me feel a little dirty and I never really feel like I've actually sent the route until I can do it without it.

Wow! I can't believe this has gone on for five pages.

Let's make it six pages. What's 'stick clipping'? Does it have something to do with ADA?

Is stick clipping A0 or C0?

David Sahalie wrote: Furthermore and suchforth, If the FA wore a bowling ball strapped to their ass, it is the responsibility of the leader to research what type of ball used and ascend in kind.

Absolutely...assuming they have balls, otherwise it would be appropriate to allow a weight deduction of said bowling ball for folks such as PrrrdyLady that have other assets that weigh them down.

EDIT: Page 6 it is!

EDIT v.2: Jason Todd, neither A0 or C0, but TR 0

Jason Todd wrote:Is stick clipping A0 or C0?

How about G1. G standing for gear that is considered to be a part of climbing IE rubber shoes, harnesses, belay devices, etc. True climbing is climbing butt naked, hand weaving your rope and slings from hemp and the only pro is slinging chockstones other natural pro. Anything more is aid. So stick clipping is probably about G10-G15 depending on how many bolts you sick clip

But on a slightly more serious note, it would C0 since you aren't pounding any pitons

eli poss wrote:But on a slightly more serious note, it would C0 since you aren't pounding any pitons

Not really...if the climber isn't pulling/hanging/yarding on the clipped bolt, it's a free ascent and not aid. It's simply protecting your ankles and knees from getting jacked up as you leave the ground and climb to the second bolt.

Jason Todd wrote:Is stick clipping A0 or C0

Stick clipping is neither

Climbing is for fun, who cares what anyone thinks? I will stick clip anytime i would risk injury that would stop me from being about to climb. Anytime you reach a ledge on a route you pretty much are starting from a grounding point so you either have to getting used to risking hitting the ground (ledge) or avoid alot of routes. There are a handful of routes i will climb "off route" past certain points due to the risk of grounding.

Given I do live and climb in NC where we are known for having routes with the first pro / bolt 30 ft off the ground so i have in some cases climb other routes to traverse to clip first bolts on other routes (not sure if we have a name for that form of stick clipping)

If you are leading on draws that are already clipped to bolts or stick clipped first bolt it isn't the same as a pure clip. I have no problem admitting it but i don't care. There are tons of people say it is still a pure lead but it isn't, sorry it just isn't. It is alot easier to bypass the mental aspect of having to pull out a draw and clip it and than clip the rope VS having it already clipped or having to do half the work on lead.

I know routes that they added perma-draws to and it greatly changes the route because with the perma hanging chain draws people can clip off of jugs instead of bad holds and it drops difficulty of the route. But once again some of us clip for fun and don't care about the grade.

KCP wrote: Stick-clipping is as much aid climbing as is wearing climbing shoes and using chalk, imo.

But as i like to say chalk, rope, draws, shoes belay partner it's ALL aid.

KCP wrote: A lot of the older sport routes have high first bolts out of monetary practicality - the same reason that warm-up routes at older sport areas are so run out. Hardware was expensive, serious climbers were generally tight on funds, and so routes got bolts only were they seemed needed to prevent groundfall.

And on a lot of NEW routes when money isn't a problem, too. When the start off the ground is, say, a 12' high, overhanging, sequential V3/4 boulder problem on an 11+ route, it makes perfect sense to place the first bolt high with the intention of having the climber stick-clip it.

Sure I stick clip! Safety first, that's why I carry a mad rock trigger wire. I put it on a draw and take it on every trip just in case I need to stick clip. Its easy enough to stick the trigger wire caribeaner on an extendable hiking pole or a big stick with a hair tie and then I don't need to bring a pole like the super clip, just my hiking poles.