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Standing too far away from the rock

Original Post
Carly D · · Albuquerque, NM · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 5

More so at the climbing gym than outside, I see belayers standing tremendously too far away from the first piece of protection. Obviously this is bad because if the climber falls the belayer can be launched into the wall or if the belayer is much heavier than the climber, the rope could act as a hard obstacle on which the climber could fall onto. Despite the frequency in which I see this bad practice, I have never seen anyone injured, I have not read about it on the AAC list of accidents, and I have not read online about an incident where someone was injured because the belayer stood too far away. My curiosity drives me to ask the climbing community, have you witnessed an injury due to this bad practice?

jmeizis · · Colorado Springs, CO · Joined Jul 2008 · Points: 230

When I first started leading my belayer was standing about five feet back. When I fell on the second bolt they got slammed into the wall and almost broke their foot. They held the belay though. I always teach people to stand to the side or in a place they won't get slammed into something if their climber falls.

runout · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 30

I have heard of nuts zippering from standing too far away from the wall. Second, third hand account though.

20 kN · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2009 · Points: 1,346
O.L.D.S.A.G. wrote:I have heard of nuts zippering from standing too far away from the wall. Second, third hand account though.
I have seen the first four nuts of a route zipper during a fall. It was a 5.13 at the Cookie Cliff in Yosemite. The route is called Sigmata (sp?) and it's a somewhat popular clean aid line. Anyway, the entire thing is nothing but pin scars, and so one must use tons of offset nuts and cams. The placements are typically solid, but offset nuts in pin scars tend to have very poor resistance to outward pull.

Anyway, a friend fell on his 5th placement, and his belayer only 10' from the wall, was far enough away to pull the first four placements (all offset nuts in pin scars). His fifth placement was a solid cam, which is the only thing that kept him off the deck while he was dangling around 30' off the ground.
climbing coastie · · Wasilla, AK · Joined Feb 2011 · Points: 95

I was leading in the gym on an overhanging section and told my belayer to take. Instead of taking in slack she stepped back. I outweighed her by a significant amount and when I let go she got yanked forward while letting go with her brake hand. I watched it all in slow motion as I accelerated towards the ground. Luckily she grabbed the rope (above the ATC) and slowed my fall so I didn't deck too hard. She came out of it with some major rope burns on both hands. Took me a while to lead after that.

20 kN · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2009 · Points: 1,346
climbing coastie wrote:I was leading in the gym on an overhanging section and told my belayer to take. Instead of taking in slack she stepped back. I outweighed her by a significant amount and when I let go she got yanked forward while letting go with her brake hand. I watched it all in slow motion as I accelerated towards the ground. Luckily she grabbed the rope (above the ATC) and slowed my fall so I didn't deck too hard. She came out of it with some major rope burns on both hands. Took me a while to lead after that.
Had the same thing happen to me a long time ago, but my belayer was using a GriGri which saved the day. The fact that she was my girlfriend at the time dident stop me from threatening not to climb with her anymore.
Abram Herman · · Grand Junction, CO · Joined May 2009 · Points: 20

Can't even tell you how many times I saw this just last night at Earth Treks Golden. Not to mention other sorts of crappy belays. It always amazes me how lightly people seem to take something where inattention/lack of skill could lead to a serious injury or even death. Needless to say, I'm picky when it comes to my own climbing partners and belayers.

Carly D · · Albuquerque, NM · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 5

Sounds like a ton of close calls, but surprisingly few major injuries.

Wilson On The Drums · · Woodbury, MN · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 940

they put a sign up at the local gym with the exact warning as the op. something like, "stand no more than 5' feet from the wall." when i saw it i could only think that if they posted it, it must have happened (aka someone took a whipper and the belayer got slammed into the wall and dropped the leader." bottom line is, as a belayer, your climbers life and limbs are in your hands. use good judgement and be ready at all times.

Mike P · · Saint Louis · Joined Apr 2013 · Points: 71

At one of the gyms where I climbed in St Louis a belayer broke his ankle badly several months ago due to standing too far from the wall while lead belaying a much larger climber. The wall was stained with blood for weeks.

Slartibartfast · · Magrathea · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 0

Well, this one time I was climbing with this kid who probably weighed about 100 pounds soaking wet. He decides he needs to pee after he's already tied in to the toprope. Instead of untying, he just walks into the woods about 30 feet, with the slack stretching up to the cliff top above him. 2 or 3 of the rest of us climbed up about ten feet, then jumped onto the brake end all at once. The kid goes flying through the air(still peeing), hits the ground, and comes skipping through the dirt up to the cliff base.

He didn't get hurt, so I guess this doesn't actually answer your question. I just felt like telling that story.

Bapgar 1 · · Out of the Loop · Joined Oct 2007 · Points: 90

Slar...
That's by far the best response to this thread, even if you completely fabricated the tale.

Tim Stich · · Colorado Springs, Colorado · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 1,520

Where oh where on the Internets is that picture from J-Tree that Russ posted years ago of the belayer standing no less than 20 feet from his aid leader? It was incredible.

Limpingcrab DJ · · Middle of CA · Joined Nov 2010 · Points: 1,055

A friend was climbing with two buddies when the leader fell and the belayer got yanked into the rock and knocked out. He wasn't very far away, just a little guy. Luckily he was using a gri-gri so he still caught the fall, unconsciously.

More of a story that my friend uses to justify his preference for the gri-gri. I think it justifies always wearing a helmet but he still never wears one.

ChefMattThaner · · Lakewood, co · Joined May 2013 · Points: 246
O.L.D.S.A.G. wrote:I have heard of nuts zippering from standing too far away from the wall. Second, third hand account though.
This has more to do with the placement and/or lack of extension of the nut than the location of the belayer. Cams or opposed placements are a far better option for the first piece. Although standing further away does put more outward pull on the system, it is nothing like the forces of a lead fall. The nut would probably pull in a fall anyway if it is the first piece of a multi piece system.
Rob Baumgartner · · Niwot · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 196

I see this constantly at the gym. It's especially bad on overhanging walls, where belayers apparently don't want to crane their necks past vertical and thus keep walking backwards (at least they're watching their climbers?). Here's a revolutionary idea: TURN AROUND.

I have definitely plenty of climbers fall much farther than necessary this way due to the extra rope in the system, and a few times I'm sure it was a contributing factor in belayer/climber collisions, but nothing serious that I've personally witnessed.

Eric Engberg · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2009 · Points: 0
Baumer wrote:I see this constantly at the gym. It's especially bad on overhanging walls, where belayers apparently don't want to crane their necks past vertical and thus keep walking backwards (at least they're watching their climbers?). Here's a revolutionary idea: TURN AROUND. I have definitely plenty of climbers fall much farther than necessary this way due to the extra rope in the system, and a few times I'm sure it was a contributing factor in belayer/climber collisions, but nothing serious that I've personally witnessed.
In general you are right but there are edge cases where the only way to see the out of sight leader is to move out some. First choice is to engage a 3rd person to relay information about the climber. not always possible. Should you be able to belay a leader without being able to see them? Absolutely - happens all the time in the real world. But in the sanitized gym world the belayers generally expect to be able to see. If they move out from the wall it would be ideal if they knew the pros/cons of doing so.
JohnnyG · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 10
Baumer wrote: Here's a revolutionary idea: TURN AROUND.
+1
Patrick Shyvers · · Fort Collins, CO · Joined Jul 2013 · Points: 10
20 kN wrote: I have seen the first four nuts of a route zipper during a fall... the entire thing is nothing but pin scars
Stuff like this is why I practice tricks like opposing nuts as a multidirectional!

Carly Donahue wrote:Sounds like a ton of close calls, but surprisingly few major injuries.
Have you heard of survivorship bias?

The theory goes like this; the people who got major injuries from a zipper either passed away, or quit climbing/can't climb anymore.
runout · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 30

It seems like it would be hard to place an opposing nut when climbing a .13 route. I mean do it if you can, but it's not always possible.

slim · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2004 · Points: 1,103

sometimes the gear through the opening stretch isn't ideal, and you really need your belayer up close to the wall.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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