New routing at Eagle Lake Cliff
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Hello, |
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I don't know if there's really a local route police. |
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ERIC..... why start with the rap bolting????? |
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Guy Keesee wrote:ERIC..... why start with the rap bolting?????Because it is the best way to get quality bolt placements where they should be for free climbing. Good route setting has been done ground up, but there is much more chance the bolts won't be placed optimally or the route will be cleaned well. If you and some buddies TR the thing and double check the placements and make sure the line has the most natural flow, the results for others will usually be better. |
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M Sprague wrote: Because it is the best way to get quality bolt placements where they should be for free climbing. Good route setting has been done ground up, but there is much more chance the bolts won't be placed optimally or the route will be cleaned well. If you and some buddies TR the thing and double check the placements and make sure the line has the most natural flow, the results for others will usually be better.M Sprague..... I have always found that on GOOD granite, its best to lead without TR rehersal. If its choss, diferent story, one must figure out if indeed a line of holds will stay in place. There are a whole bunch of crappy, poorley (location of) bolted climbs up at Shuteye.... all the products of a Rap Bolting mindset of "the most climbs in the quickest timeframe" But in the end its a good climb you are after. If one wishes to leave out the ADVENTURE part that's ok, by me. |
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Guy Keesee wrote: M Sprague..... I have always found that on GOOD granite, its best to lead without TR rehersal. If its choss, diferent story, one must figure out if indeed a line of holds will stay in place. There are a whole bunch of crappy, poorley (location of) bolted climbs up at Shuteye.... all the products of a Rap Bolting mindset of "the most climbs in the quickest timeframe" But in the end its a good climb you are after. If one wishes to leave out the ADVENTURE part that's ok, by me.I'd have to agree with Mark on this one. If you are intending on bolting a sport route, then top down almost always yields a better result. When you climb a route ground up then your bolt placements by necessity are dictated by where you can get a solid hook placement or a stance to drill from instead of where the best bolt locations are relative to where the climb is supposed to go. Thus in the end, a ground up approach often yields haphazard bolting at best. Now, I am certainly not arguing against all ground up bolting because many of my favorite routes were done ground up, but most of those routes followed a nature line of weakness on mostly moderate ground up a big face where a bit of a wandering bolt line really does follow the intending line of climbing. In the end, both types of bolting are great, but they are intended for very different types of routes. IMHO, it is usually the route developer's abilities that dictate whether the climb and the bolting job are top notch and not the style of installation. By the way Guy, I am surprised to hear you say that you dislike the bolting at Shuteye. Most of the stuff that I have climbed there was bolted pretty well and followed interesting climbing. Though I have to admit, I have not climbed down at Chiquito which is likely the location that you are bitching about, yes? |
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I certainly wasn't saying rap bolting guarantees quality placement. There are good and bad practitioners of both methods, but it is easier and somewhat more likely to do a good job if you are able to have a good pre-inspection of the canvas you are working on and be not stressed out while your are drilling. |
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I want to toprope it just to see if the route is doable (for me). If it turns out to be 5.14 I will probably not do it. However, it looks doable from the ground. |
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J A. ... I am pretty hard on rap bolters if they don't get it 100% right. |
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Hey Guy, |
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J. You will be able to tell the good from the bad. |
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Hey J. Alberts, if you are looking to climb something phenomenal do this: |
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ErichPurpur wrote:Hello, Last time I was out at this wall I noticed a pretty good looking line between The beak and Moonflower. Basically it is a diagonal rail up an otherwise blank face. I intend to rig a toprope and try it next time I am out there. From the ground it doesn't look like there is gear so it requires bolts. Before I go and put up a route out there I thought I would ask the community. I am fairly new to the area so I don't want to get in trouble with the local "route police." Because it is a wilderness area I assume bolts would have to be drilled by hand. Can anyone say Yay or Nay to the potential for new routes out there?Anyway, enough from me about bolting style; what about the route you are proposing? I just looked through some pictures that show the route you are proposing. Having lived in Northern CA for the better part of a decade, I would think its pretty iffy that folks are going to be okay with bolting a sport route right there (especially if its rap bolted). The problem is that your proposed route has two established trad routes immediately next to it (one on each side of your route), i.e. it would be a pretty tight squeeze for three routes to exist there. Because Eagle Lake Cliff is probably the best traditional crag in the Emerald Bay area and has striking natural lines, I think folks are going to think that a bolted route so close to two classic trad routes is not a good idea. Now, I'm not saying don't do it, but I do think that you should give some serious thought to whether its a good idea or not. Given that you have just recently moved to Northern CA, then perhaps you could wait a while before you bolt so that you can absorb some of the local style preferences for the various crags before you put drill to stone? (For e.g., knowing the different bolting styles at Mayhem Cove versus Eagle Creek Cliff). Cheers Erich. SirTobyThe3rd wrote:Hey J. Alberts, if you are looking to climb something phenomenal do this: mountainproject.com/v/tokop… WILD crux and a great route. Granite is amazing so are the views. Its around 9,000 ft, but could be a bit warm during August. Check the forecast if you go.Holy crap, that looks incredible. Whew, I guess that needs to be added to the list (that and the Obelisk, etc. etc.!!) Thanks for the recommendation. |
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It sure does. I need some of that rock here in NH for new routing. When I look at pictures from out your way, everything looks beautiful and clean, no month of cleaning to dig out a 100 foot "classic". Plus you can get great photos because it is not buried in trees. |
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J Albers ...... thanks for your well thought out answer for the OP. I agree with your thinking. |
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J. Albers wrote: Anyway, enough from me about bolting style; what about the route you are proposing? I just looked through some pictures that show the route you are proposing. Having lived in Northern CA for the better part of a decade, I would think its pretty iffy that folks are going to be okay with bolting a sport route right there (especially if its rap bolted). The problem is that your proposed route has two established trad routes immediately next to it (one on each side of your route), i.e. it would be a pretty tight squeeze for three routes to exist there. Because Eagle Lake Cliff is probably the best traditional crag in the Emerald Bay area and has striking natural lines, I think folks are going to think that a bolted route so close to two classic trad routes is not a good idea. Now, I'm not saying don't do it, but I do think that you should give some serious thought to whether its a good idea or not. Given that you have just recently moved to Northern CA, then perhaps you could wait a while before you bolt so that you can absorb some of the local style preferences for the various crags before you put drill to stone? (For e.g., knowing the different bolting styles at Mayhem Cove versus Eagle Creek Cliff).There is at least 1 sport route at the area and a few bolts on other routes. This is why I posted a thread about this topic, in hopes that locals would chime in and say "yes, go ahead and put up new routes" or "no, don't do it." |
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I think J. Albers makes some great points, and I don't think it's as black and white as "yes, put up new routes" or "no, don't put up new routes". |