Natural Anchor Practice

I would always use a back up piece if there was one and use cord to clip into. In fact I would just use cord around the tree too as the second could clip into the belay if I was to continue leading. I would sling the tree loosely with the rope and clip it into my harness just for extra safety. (I saw someone die in front of me through bad practices. I go overboard now) I don't like hanging off slings unless it is absolutely necessary if the rope is not in the system after watching the DMM video on you tube and seeing slangs snap with two foot fall. It may seem over the top but thats what I do

Ian Stewart wrote: The difference between a TR anchor and a girth-hitched PAS is that the PAS is always right in front of you and always in sight, so you know exactly what's happening to it at all times. A TR anchor on the other hand will very often be out of sight for MOST of your climbing, so you may have no idea about the marmot up top chewing on that sling that got all salty from your summer sweat. I know that a single sling is more than enough, and I'd rap/bail off a single sling around a fat tree any day. And if I had to TR off one, that probably wouldn't bother me much either. But if I'm setting up the anchor myself, I'd throw a second one on there. It certainly doesn't hurt, it might save your life in that 0.00000001% chance failure, and it's not like I'm in short supply of slings.

those are some pretty big hoary marmots that chew up yr slings in the space of a few TRs !!!

there are plenty of instances where a sling belay is supervised ... running up multi or belaying from the top

if someone chooses to uses 10 slings thats totally up to them

but they would freak out with me as theres plenty of times where i simply girth hitch a sling around a tree for a top belay ... or "gasp" wrap the rope around the tree ... no redundancy

;)

John Tex wrote:So looking through a new anchor book I have purchased it shows a natural tree anchor that is simply a sling girth hitched around a tree. Is this actually used as an anchor? To me it simply seems like a piece of protection as there is no redundency in the system. I would not want to use this as an anchor at all. It also shows a cordelette wrapped around a tree with a figure-8 on a bight tied to make a master point. This seems much safer as it is redundant but is still only two pieces, not three, which I was under the impression it optimal. Is it general practice to belay from this system?

Hi John, if that worries you have a look at this:
climber.co.uk/categories/ar…

we have shit looking blocks and a rusty stake.

And this isn't in some horror MP "worst anchor of the year" thread; this is a how to do it correctly article in a UK climbing mag.

if I find a tree to belay off or rap off I think it a good day.

One caveat to using the rope to sling a natural anchor is that it is now fully in the anchoring system.

Rock rescue operations can become more complicated when using the rope as an anchor (escaping the system, and performing a counterbalance rappel), and your partner is now committed to leading the next pitch unless you switch tie-in points.

I always carry a 240mm length dyneema sling and one 6m cordellete (+1 extra cordellete if I am building lots of gear anchors). With those two items, and the normal climbing slings you carry, you can construct almost anything you need for a natural anchor.

Using the rope as an anchor is a good tool in the toolbox, but I will always carry additional slings and cord to distribute forces on my anchor, and make good anchors.

rocknice2 wrote: Is not about the math. That fact is a soft good can get cut and the thinner it is the less it takes to cut it. bearbreader: I don't rap off single slings, single Abalokovs and when I use a sling/PAS as a tether, it's a thick one.

When you get to BC you'll see the trees are freakin huge!! We toproped in Whistler one time. We tried to girth hitch a double length sling around a tree to make an anchor. We had to use a cordlette as the sling would've tri loaded the lockers!

I see lots of slings around a single tree in the winter. Nobody cares about the Marmots? They hibernating or something?

Steven Kovalenko wrote:One caveat to using the rope to sling a natural anchor is that it is now fully in the anchoring system. Rock rescue operations can become more complicated when using the rope as an anchor (escaping the system, and performing a counterbalance rappel), and your partner is now committed to leading the next pitch unless you switch tie-in points. I always carry a 240mm length dyneema sling and one 6m cordellete (+1 extra cordellete if I am building lots of gear anchors). With those two items, and the normal climbing slings you carry, you can construct almost anything you need for a natural anchor. Using the rope as an anchor is a good tool in the toolbox, but I will always carry additional slings and cord to distribute forces on my anchor, and make good anchors.

Err...what? You don't have to switch tie in points if you aren't swinging leads. They can just use their end of the rope to attach to whatever pieces you were using for the anchor (or the tree in this case).

Ryan Watts wrote: Err...what? You don't have to switch tie in points if you aren't swinging leads. They can just use their end of the rope to attach to whatever pieces you were using for the anchor (or the tree in this case).

Yes, I am just pointing out the caveats of using the rope as an anchor instead of a sling or cordelettes.

The previous leader, who belayed up the second, is now tied into the rope anchor on his/her rope end. Thus, that individual cannot lead the next pitch unless climbers swap rope ends, because the entire rope anchor has to be deconstructed.

Its a good point to discuss if the OP is learning to build anchors.

I usually multi-pitch lead in blocks with my partner, or I frequently bring two seconds along, so using the rope as an anchor instead of slings is a pain.

So in the Canadian Rockies and nearabouts, about 99% of the time I don't use the rope as my anchoring material.

Steven Kovalenko wrote: Yes, I am just pointing out the caveats of using the rope as an anchor instead of a sling or cordelettes. The previous leader, who belayed up the second, is now tied into the rope anchor on his/her rope end. Thus, that individual cannot lead the next pitch unless climbers swap rope ends, because the entire rope anchor has to be deconstructed. Its a good point to discuss if the OP is learning to build anchors. I usually multi-pitch lead in blocks with my partner, or I frequently bring two seconds along, so using the rope as an anchor instead of slings is a pain. So in the Canadian Rockies and nearabouts, about 99% of the time I don't use the rope as my anchoring material.

I think you're missing what I'm saying. Say I am leading the pitch and I plug in three pieces for the anchor, tie fig8, clove, clove, off belay (or whatever type of rope anchor you want to make). Now you (the second) come up. You take your end, fig8, clove, clove into the same pieces. We flip the rope, I undo my knots and take off. No need to switch ends.

Not saying there's anything wrong with a cordelette -- I bring one most of the time as well (maybe not 99% but let's say 60-70%) -- just want to make sure no one ends up thinking they need to untie from the rope because they forgot their cordelette in the car!

Steven Kovalenko wrote:The previous leader, who belayed up the second, is now tied into the rope anchor on his/her rope end. Thus, that individual cannot lead the next pitch unless climbers swap rope ends, because the entire rope anchor has to be deconstructed.

We're talking about wrapping the rope around a tree here. If you're not swapping leads, it shouldn't take more than a few seconds to wrap the tree with the second's rope.

Steven Kovalenko wrote:Using the rope as an anchor is a good tool in the toolbox, but I will always carry additional slings and cord to distribute forces on my anchor, and make good anchors

You kinda make it sound like you think making an anchor with the rope is not a "good anchor". The anchor will be as good as you make it, regardless of the cord connecting it all together. A 3 piece equalized anchor made from the rope, which is my go-to setup whenever possible, is bomber and cleans up in seconds. I carry a cord but I see no reason to use it when I usually have 10+ meters of extra rope just sitting there anyways.

Steven Kovalenko wrote:So in the Canadian Rockies and nearabouts, about 99% of the time I don't use the rope as my anchoring material.

What about the Canadian Rockies makes using your rope for an anchor less convenient than anywhere else?

Ryan Watts wrote: I think you're missing what I'm saying. Say I am leading the pitch and I plug in three pieces for the anchor, tie fig8, clove, clove, off belay (or whatever type of rope anchor you want to make). Now you (the second) come up. You take your end, fig8, clove, clove into the same pieces. We flip the rope, I undo my knots and take off. No need to switch ends. That being said when leading in blocks I usually bring a cordelette.

I never usually construct my belay and anchor systems like that. Maybe on a hanging belay I will figure 8 or clove my first bomber anchor piece while building the rest of it, then transfer myself to the master point. Maybe that's why I missed your point, and my own was not clear.

Ultimately, there are lots of different ways to anchor and belay. If the OP has any doubts about anchor building, finding a knowledgeable climbing mentor or guide could help with the OP's knowledge base and comfort level.

Someone mentioned slinging a boulder or tree with the rope to make an anchor, which is where I was going with my point. I think this makes it impossible to block lead with the system you describe (unless your second also walks around the tree to make his own anchor).

Ian Stewart wrote: We're talking about wrapping the rope around a tree here. If you're not swapping leads, it shouldn't take more than a few seconds to wrap the tree with the second's rope. You kinda make it sound like you think making an anchor with the rope is not a "good anchor". The anchor will be as good as you make it, regardless of the cord connecting it all together. A 3 piece equalized anchor made from the rope, which is my go-to setup whenever possible, is bomber and cleans up in seconds. I carry a cord but I see no reason to use it when I usually have 10+ meters of extra rope just sitting there anyways. What about the Canadian Rockies makes using your rope for an anchor less convenient than anywhere else?

I'm not really trying to make a point that one method is better than the other.

Using the rope uses less gear, and is bomber, but comes with caveats.

I prefer to always use cords or slings to make it easier to escape the system or affect a rescue.

Maybe I'm going into regional differences here. The majority of time, local ACMG guides in anchor building and "trad" courses, and my own partners use cords or slings to load distribute pieces of gear or bolts for anchors. It's my preferred practice.

You can easily swap leads by using the rope on the tree

- second gets to the tree

- they pull a bight of rope around the tree

- the clove it into a locker on the belay loop

Takes 10 seconds ... We do it all the time on the many tree anchors on moderates here

As to self rescue ... Theres one extra step ... You need to sling the tree to transfer the load to it

;)