Trad pack?

D.E.W. wrote:Cold cold world makes sick packs! Built so well you'd probably be able to pass it down to next generation . Also on the plus side you can call randy and have him mod it for you.. I've been using my Valdez for both cragging and backpacking and another bonus they are cheaper than most others listed

+1 here!

The above mentioned Neon 45 just replaced my 20 year old CCW crag pack. Thing has been thru hell and back and still functions. Did not realize they even made packs anymore. My old CCW is totally bombproof!

CCW all the way. Ozone would be the way to go. I think it is around 40liters (at least mine is), but hey, you'll carry less stuff that way. I don't see why you should be able to put what you have on your list in one. Absolutely indestructible.

I would suggest you try on as many packs as you can before making a purchase. I heard Black Diamond packs are junk. I also heard Cilo gear, CCW and Hyperlite were some of the best on the market. I checked out every pack I could to find a 50L pack for ice climbing. I wanted to be cool, drink PBR and rock a Cilogear. I ended up with a BD Mission 50 because that pack fit the best. I can put a rack, rope, tools, crampons, belay jacket, puffy pants, lunch, water, first aid and a thermos. I haul all this crap around and feel comfortable all day.

I have a Deuter Guide 35 for the summer. I've owned it since the second day I ever went climbing. Haha.. I brought a gym bag on the hike back to Grotto Falls the first day I ever put on a harness. Anyway that pack has held up really well over the years. Maybe check out Deuter.

I've got the Deuter Guide 45 and really like it. Not the lightest bag, but very functional. Big up is the optional helmet net. Annoyance is the permanently attached brain.

I use a Deuter Guide Lite 32+ for rock and ice. Great pack and it can expand to 40L. It's super light too. If you can't fit your gear in that size pack, you need to learn how to pack it (or give some to your lazy-ass partner).

I fit all that stuff in a 33L BD Axis pack. I love that pack. If you really need something bigger (you don't) get the 45L version which is the Epic 45. I don't understand why so many people are carrying huge, half empty packs. I only just got the 45L pack so I could take it for long mountaineering trips. As far as BD durability goes I disagree. Most packs I've had don't last one season, so far my BD Axis looks like it will make it thru a second. They're pretty bomber.

I have a Neon Gear 45 made my Mammut. Love the thing. Built in rope tarp and chalk storage space that comes with the bag. Straps for rope on the top. I fit my rack, 85 ft static, lots and lots of gear, a helmet, guidebook, 3 water bottles, lunch and an extra layer no problem. The thing swallows gear. Its not crazy comfy so if your hiking for hours its not ideal, but for a few miles into the crag its perfect. Designed to organize and it works great for me. Worth checking out.

jmeizis wrote:I fit all that stuff in a 33L BD Axis pack. I love that pack. If you really need something bigger (you don't) get the 45L version which is the Epic 45. I don't understand why so many people are carrying huge, half empty packs. I only just got the 45L pack so I could take it for long mountaineering trips. As far as BD durability goes I disagree. Most packs I've had don't last one season, so far my BD Axis looks like it will make it thru a second. They're pretty bomber.

I appreciate your help but I do fill a 50 liter pack with my standard gear and don't have room left over.

I have a Mammut Trion 45+10. It has all the great features the other posters said about their Mammut packs. I think the best thing about it is it expands to carry a ton of stuff and compresses down to almost nothing for climbing. Really versatile gear and compression straps. It's very comfortable and totally bomber. Check it out.

Chad Miller wrote: I appreciate your help but I do fill a 50 liter pack with my standard gear and don't have room left over.

With what? Just the gear you listed? You gotta push harder. Make it fit!

Chad Miller wrote: I appreciate your help but I do fill a 50 liter pack with my standard gear and don't have room left over.

You're doing it wrong. I can pack a rope, rack, harness, shoes, food, and all my miscellany into the CCW Ozone (the rope goes on the outside, between the brain and the body).

If you primarily want this crag for "true" cragging with short approaches, where the pack never comes up the route with you, then get a cragging pack that zips open like a clamshell - it is far more convenient, and you can go as big as you like without suffering much of a penalty. If you will be doing longer approaches or multi pitch routes where the pack comes along then a small top loader like the Ozone would be ideal. A bigger pack will be a heavy pain in the ass in this case.

Max Forbes wrote:I have a Neon Gear 45 made my Mammut. Love the thing. Built in rope tarp and chalk storage space that comes with the bag. Straps for rope on the top. I fit my rack, 85 ft static, lots and lots of gear, a helmet, guidebook, 3 water bottles, lunch and an extra layer no problem. The thing swallows gear. Its not crazy comfy so if your hiking for hours its not ideal, but for a few miles into the crag its perfect. Designed to organize and it works great for me. Worth checking out.

I can confirm. I own one and it literally swallows gear. Not super comfortable, but not the worst either.

I think I've found a solution to my problem . . . . a kick ass seamstress that used to do pack sewing.

I'll be dropping off my Muria 50 to her on Monday and she's going to detach and reattach the shoulder straps 3" lower. She'll also be reinforcing the new attachment points. All I'll have to do is drill new holes in the plastic frame sheet.

Yippie!

Chad Miller wrote:...she's going to detach and reattach the shoulder straps 3" lower.

One word of caution... if you climb in your pack, check beforehand to see if carrying 3 inches higher will interfere with looking up in a helmet.

jmeizis wrote:With what? Just the gear you listed? You gotta push harder. Make it fit!

double set of stoppers
tricams white through blue with doubles in white, black and pink
16 extendable draws with should length slings
two 48" slings
60m rope
cams .5 through 6 with tripples in the 1.5 and 2.0 sizes.
20 feet cord, two sets
a few lockers
harness
chalk bag
shoes
3 liters water
food
first aid kit
ten essentials
toiletries (bug dope, sun screen, ect)
diabetic supplies
helmet
guide book
camera
puffy or wind / rain jacket as needed

I push plenty hard and the pack is full. ;)

I was searching for a pack similar to the Miura 50, specifically one that zips down the sides or down the middle. Anything but a top loader. First I went with a Mountain Hardware Splitter 38. At 38 liters it's just too small to carry everything (I carry just what you listed). I later came across the Boreas Sapa Trek (M/L is 55L). Thing is super light and has great capacity. If it has a con it's durability, but that's judging by feel of the material. Time will tell. So far it's the best pack I've owned.

boreasgear.com/products/sap…

I think it depends on what you will be doing with the pack.

10 years ago I bought a Metolius haulbag-style pack similar to what they now call the express pack. I have taken it to 3 continents and pretty much have used it as my go-to pack for everything from crag climbing to bigwalls. After 10 years it is still going strong. I like that it has no extra pockets and crap to get caught up when squeezing narrow spaces or hiking through brush. The tube style design holds its form and makes dropping a rack of gear or rope inside very smooth and easy. Mine has one zip pocket at the top for keys or whatever and it will keep stuff dry unless submerged or in very extended wet conditions.

Downsides would be that it doesn't have a frame so carrying very heavy loads would not be good but is not a problem if carrying only a rack/rope/crag gear. It has burly construction that makes it heavier too.

In short if you want a pack that will last forever, has a streamlined design, and will tolerate a little more weight go with one of these. I googled it and seems like there are some out there for less than $100.

double set of stoppers
tricams white through blue with doubles in white, black and pink
16 extendable draws with should length slings
two 48" slings
60m rope
cams .5 through 6 with tripples in the 1.5 and 2.0 sizes.
20 feet cord, two sets
a few lockers
harness
chalk bag
shoes
3 liters water
food
first aid kit
ten essentials
toiletries (bug dope, sun screen, ect)
diabetic supplies
helmet
guide book
camera
puffy or wind / rain jacket as needed
I push plenty hard and the pack is full. ;)

Ok, your rack is HUGE. I'm going to try and add a few years to the life of your spine but unless you're trying to send El Cap in one pitch you could probably stand to lose a good deal of stuff :)

Stoppers, unless you really like placing them there isn't much reason to bring two sets as well as all those tricams as well as a huge rack of cams. I lead parties of 4 up 10 pitch routes with a double rack of cams .3-3. That's not to say you should be that minimalist but you could certainly stand to lose at least a set of nuts, some of the tricams and everything above a #3 or #4 unless you know the climb requires it. That #6 alone takes up like 10L of pack space. If it were me I'd choose between the tricams and the stoppers and only take one set.

For cragging, even multipitch the ten essentials are essentially a waste in my opinion. My cellphone pretty much takes care of the guidebook, camera, emergency light, map and compass. In the very unlikely chance I need those things I'm willing to put all my faith in the one electronic device. Because more often than not I won't need it. If you really needed to MacGuyver it you could also use your phone battery to start a fire. Not exactly safe.

A knife can be substituted with a good rock. Emergency shelters are great if you like to be miserable. Probably better to just stumble back to the car in the dark though. Dump everything out of your first aid kit except some band aids and pain killers. If it's really bad what you need want be in your FA kit. If it's so bad that you could carry it you're probably bailing to go to the hospital and can either wait or improvise. A WFR is worth more than a first aid kit in my opinion.

Hope your toiletries are travel size! Be sure to clean out your pack every once and a while. You won't need bug spray in Vegas or might not need sunscreen in the Cascades.

In regards to rain jackets and puffies. Maybe I just am a little more stoic when it comes to that sort of thing but the only time I bring a rain jacket or puffy is on backcountry climbs with approaches that are more than an hour or so, even then I sometimes do without (still have yet to regret it, knock on wood). If it's really raining that bad you'll bail and be back at the car quickly. If you look at the weather you have a general idea of whether you actually need a puffy or not.

So by now you've probably dropped twenty pounds out of your pack. Now if you split stuff with your partner you could probably just go packless! Now slim down the diameter of your rope, get superlight carabiners, some nice approach sandals. There is a reason I can't count the number of people I have passed but could count the number of people who've passed me on one hand. I'm leaving for a week of alpine climbing in the Cascades. Everything is in a 45L pack with only a few things strapped on the outside (rope, ice ax and tool, picket, rope).

LIGHT IS RIGHT!!!

jmeizis wrote: double set of stoppers tricams white through blue with doubles in white, black and pink 16 extendable draws with should length slings two 48" slings 60m rope cams .5 through 6 with tripples in the 1.5 and 2.0 sizes. 20 feet cord, two sets a few lockers harness chalk bag shoes 3 liters water food first aid kit ten essentials toiletries (bug dope, sun screen, ect) diabetic supplies helmet guide book camera puffy or wind / rain jacket as needed I push plenty hard and the pack is full. ;) Ok, your rack is HUGE. I'm going to try and add a few years to the life of your spine but unless you're trying to send El Cap in one pitch you could probably stand to lose a good deal of stuff :) Stoppers, unless you really like placing them there isn't much reason to bring two sets as well as all those tricams as well as a huge rack of cams. I lead parties of 4 up 10 pitch routes with a double rack of cams .3-3. That's not to say you should be that minimalist but you could certainly stand to lose at least a set of nuts, some of the tricams and everything above a #3 or #4 unless you know the climb requires it. That #6 alone takes up like 10L of pack space. If it were me I'd choose between the tricams and the stoppers and only take one set. For cragging, even multipitch the ten essentials are essentially a waste in my opinion. My cellphone pretty much takes care of the guidebook, camera, emergency light, map and compass. In the very unlikely chance I need those things I'm willing to put all my faith in the one electronic device. Because more often than not I won't need it. If you really needed to MacGuyver it you could also use your phone battery to start a fire. Not exactly safe. A knife can be substituted with a good rock. Emergency shelters are great if you like to be miserable. Probably better to just stumble back to the car in the dark though. Dump everything out of your first aid kit except some band aids and pain killers. If it's really bad what you need want be in your FA kit. If it's so bad that you could carry it you're probably bailing to go to the hospital and can either wait or improvise. A WFR is worth more than a first aid kit in my opinion. Hope your toiletries are travel size! Be sure to clean out your pack every once and a while. You won't need bug spray in Vegas or might not need sunscreen in the Cascades. In regards to rain jackets and puffies. Maybe I just am a little more stoic when it comes to that sort of thing but the only time I bring a rain jacket or puffy is on backcountry climbs with approaches that are more than an hour or so, even then I sometimes do without (still have yet to regret it, knock on wood). If it's really raining that bad you'll bail and be back at the car quickly. If you look at the weather you have a general idea of whether you actually need a puffy or not. So by now you've probably dropped twenty pounds out of your pack. Now if you split stuff with your partner you could probably just go packless! Now slim down the diameter of your rope, get superlight carabiners, some nice approach sandals. There is a reason I can't count the number of people I have passed but could count the number of people who've passed me on one hand. I'm leaving for a week of alpine climbing in the Cascades. Everything is in a 45L pack with only a few things strapped on the outside (rope, ice ax and tool, picket, rope). LIGHT IS RIGHT!!!

Two is one, one is none...brah!

jmeizis wrote:
With what? Just the gear you listed? You gotta push harder. Make it fit!

[Chad answers]
double set of stoppers
tricams white through blue with doubles in white, black and pink
16 extendable draws with should length slings
two 48" slings

[reply]
yeah, you're rack is huge. Lose all the tri-cams. And the 2nd set of stoppers. And the triples in the cams. 10 draws max. Read Extreme Alpinism and then apply that philosophy to trad climbing.