Starting a climbing club at a university

Hi guys, calling everyone who's been involved with starting a climbing club/team at a college/university in the US. Some friends and I are looking to create a climbing club at my university, but we're running into friction with the school because they allege that climbing isn't safe blah blah blah and that they don't want to be exposed to liability. I was wondering whether anyone had dealt with administration and if you have any tips for dealing with these sorts of issues.

Thanks for your help!

Hey Jon,
I ran an "Outdoor Adventure Club" at my college back in the day. We ran into the same issues, and were able to move forward using a few key tactics.

1-Education: Most people think of climbers as insane daredevils that are bound to pop off a cliff onto the ground at any given moment. Walk them through what happens, and demonstrate the safety brought to the situation. Let them know that Yer not gunna die.

2-Faculty Support/Advisor: We had a faculty member that was our "Advisor". He was instrumental in pushing the board to allow/fund many of our activities. Without him, nothing would have been possible. Find someone to get behind you before asking administration again.

3-Liability waivers: work with them to develop a waiver that protects them in the event that a student does happen to pop off and hit the ground.

4-Be understanding of their concerns: See # 1 above

My understanding is the club I started up is stll operating now (15 years later), and is still behing regularly funded by the school.

Good luck, and feel free to reach out if you have any specific questions/roadblocks.

Jon Frisby wrote: they allege that climbing isn't safe blah blah blah and that they don't want to be exposed to liability.

Good luck going down that road. I have been doing it for the past two years. Uphill battle is an understatement. It's more like a climb to the top of Everest. I can see why the guys at the Access Fund are so stressed out. Anyway, you may want to consider just organizing something unofficially, which can be better anyway since it wouldent be burdened down by bureaucracy, idiocy and annoying rules. Speaking of the Access Fund, they are the people you want to address this question to as they are the experts in this field.

+1
I went through all the trouble of getting a climbing club started at my university and then came to the realization that there was really no benefit to going through all the university bureaucracy.
We went with a Facebook group and eventually every one interested in climbing got involved.
So unless you are a fan of the bureaucratic process and have a lot of time to devote to it, (instead of climbing) I might do something a little less formal.

Thanks for all the advice so far, everyone.

20 Kn, I was considering getting in touch with the AF, but since most of what they do has to do with getting access to outdoor ares, I didn't really consider it too much. I should reach out.

Bobby, we actually do have a Facebook group that keeps everyone in touch. The main reasons I would go the university route is because 1) we might be able to pick up some cash for extra gear and 2) going that direction, IMO, might mean that after the die-hards have all come and gone, there will still be something there to keep the community going in the future. I have two years left on my grad program, and a few of the most dedicated climbers are graduating from undergrad either the year before or the year after I am gone, and I'd like the community to survive once we're not there anymore. Since we're in NYC, a climbing club isn't the most obvious thing. And I feel like having an actual university club and/or team means people that didn't otherwise think to look into it, but are however psyched to climb, will be more likely to get involved.

If there comes a time when no students are dedicated to continuing the club, it will die out - whether it was officially university sanctioned or not. Start informally, and if it catches on and grows, there will be that much more reason to make it official, if that's still what you want.

I started a club at my school my last year there. Fortunately my school, which is in MO, already had a spelunking club and the legal department had already written up a general waiver for all clubs that would need one. My school simply has it posted on the website so here is the link to the download:

http://studentlife.mst.edu/organizations/forms/

it is the "Participant Acknowledgment of Risk and Release of Liability"

I don't know that you can legal you the exact form, but it will at least give you an idea of how to write one and what needs to be included. Also I set up different levels of members and had it "hard coded" into the constitution. There were new members that had been in the club less than one full semester, regular members that had been there more than one semester, advanced members that had been approved by at least two senior members to insure that they knew all the appropriate knots and safety precautions and it was necessary for there to be at least one advanced/senior member on every day-trip, then senior members that had been approved by other senior members and were already advanced members prior to that and it covered more safety (not much lead in central MO so leading knowledge was not necessary for advanced members, but was necessary for senior members) and more leadership and at least one officer had to approve any senior member and only senior members could run for officer positions and at least one senior member was required to go on any trip that was more than a day. This meant that the club was always ran by people that knew how to be safe climbing, and we stressed more safety than what most people follow when just out on their own (always being tied in if within a body length of a ledge, always wearing a helmet, etc.) and we went over all of this with the faculty and pointed out the many over-redundancies in climbing that actually make it safe.

The benefit to all this work was that the school gave us $2500 our first semester to spend on climbing gear. And the club has now grown since I left.

Sorry for the long post, hope that helps.

Yep, money would be a good reason to go through the hassle. My university only gave us like 100 bucks.

Jon Frisby wrote:Hi guys, calling everyone who's been involved with starting a climbing club/team at a college/university in the US. Some friends and I are looking to create a climbing club at my university, but we're running into friction with the school because they allege that climbing isn't safe blah blah blah and that they don't want to be exposed to liability. I was wondering whether anyone had dealt with administration and if you have any tips for dealing with these sorts of issues. Thanks for your help!

Has your Uni got a sports department? If you can get them onside you can plagiarise a lot of their legal speak. In the UK there are several University Mountaineering/climbing clubs - maybe if you contacted one of them they might give you some tips? I realise it maybe totally different legally here than in the US but it might be a good starting point?

Try these guys for starters.

qubmc.co.uk/

Jon,

What your doing is awesome. I am a UVM student and a member of both our "climbing team/club" as well as a leader of our outing club of which I run rock/ice trips for the school.

I think there is a couple directions you could go here, depending on what you want to do with the club and what you think is in the realm of possibility.

First off you could basically leave the club as is, which you pretty much said you dont want to do. But, if the school is being a total bitch about liability and isn't inclined to support the club. Leave it as a student run group. This what "Uvm's climbing team" essentially is. Its a facebook group of 200ish kids who like to climb, and use the group to meet up to go to our local gym or some of the local crags. Its awesome, and we don't pay dues, and don't deal with the school. We advertise at our climbing wall, as well as at school events etc.. This works fine and could be an easy way to connect.

Second, and slightly more complicated would be to do it through the school. I would start by meeting with either a faculty advisor or student representative in charge of student clubs. Use them to get information about what the requirements are, and talk about the concept of liability, and the skepticism the school has. I would venture to guess that your not the only club that has liability waivers. Go from here.

The issue I think your going to have with option two is again, liability. Our Outing Club runs student trips, which all students are eligible to sign up and participate in. Students fill out a liability waiver, acknowledging that we are not certified professionals, as well as complete a medical form that is reviewed prior to the trip. I am sure your school has some system already in place that you would be able to adopt or adapt for your use. However, heres the catch. The school allows our climbing (hiking, biking, skiing, paddling.. etc) trips because we have a paid, and highly certified outdoor professional who oversees the clubs. I have no idea what his legal liability is, however he does oversee all of the training of student leaders, and approves students for leadership roles based on our experience and professional training. He is the reason the club runs, and the reason why the school allows all this to happen. So, I think it would be challenging to start a club without professional certifications like AMGA SPI or something similar (I know NY has a specific state certification for professional guiding as well). Having a faculty member that fits this role is what has allowed for us to be sponsored risk free by the school. This is what I think is going to be challenging for you, however, it is very possible that you can convince the school that your doing something relatively risk free, or could release liability through the waiver, and could get funding without the faculty sponsor. Try to bring up that tons of schools do it!

I would encourage you to reach out to as many people at the school as possible and exploit all your resources. The more people you talk with the more information you can get. If you have more questions or what to know more about our program, please feel free to send me an email at Maxwell.forbes@uvm.edu.

Cheers and keep crushing!

In my hometown of Lausanne in Switzerland I crossed path many time with the people of Club montagne at EPFL (Lausanne uni) epfl.ch/campus/associations…
They  may not be of help on the legal side of things since the situation in quite different there than in the US but they could still give you some good advices.
This is a well established group, very active and organized, they could certainly give you tips on how to organized internally, how to deal with the uni admin and all thing related to daily and long term organisation of such a club.
I would not hesitate to send a quick email to their president people.epfl.ch/ulysse.closet
Good luck on your great project!

Universities don't want to be involved in clubs that do so-called extreme sports. The University of Texas at Austin had a caving club since the '50s i want to say that I was a member of. We met on campus in the same room for decades and that was the extent of the university's involvement, which is actually a huge help providing meeting spaces. Recently, they dissolved this relationship and the club even changed its named from the University of Texas Grotto to the Underground Texas Grotto so they could keep the acronym UTG. There may be a similar push at other universities. 

I know for our school climbing club, we made it very clear that we were not providing “guided” outings/trips. It was simply friends going out climbing. This means we were not necessarily teaching people technical things on outings (we are not guides). They could reach out if they wanted to learn more, but we weren’t doing much teaching during outings. I would make that VERY clear to your school. Us as officers were kinda responsible for making sure everyone was being safe, but in the long run everyone was responsible for themselves. The benefits for being a campus club were to apply for funded trips (we got spring break to red rox fully funded and a couple trips to moab) so it was a no brainer for us. Good luck!

Plenty of Universities have huge outdoor programs. My wife got paid as a student administrator of the Mountaineering club at UC Davis. They did it all, winter ski climbs of volcanoes, weekend trips to Yosemite, rafting the Grand Canyon etc. Classes were offered in climbing, skiing, rafting, Wilderness EMT, and some students went on to be hired by major guide services.  They had a full time instructor overseeing it all. Professional. It was a big draw when recruiting students to have such recreational opportunities at world class locations.

Common also are schools offering degrees that include climbing.

My son went to a private high school where one could get a varsity letter in Rock Climbing. That was started and maintained by one very keen teacher who wanted a club for his son. He stuck to sport climbing on routes he had put up or climbed on extensively and did gym climbing in the winter. The school provides a stipend for the teacher, a van with gas and bought the ropes, draws, and helmets. Students provide harness, shoes. Be in the club for two years, lead a 5.10 no falls and get your letter. Again, it is seen by the school as a draw for student recruitment as well as a PE type activity.

For a professional organization to join to get ideas and support try AORE.

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