trainingbeta.com

Regarding the Power Endurance training program, it is a useful program providing four days per week (or 3 days, one optional) format. It is different from most books on training because it spells out exactly what to do each day (anywhere from 2 to 4 hours each typically). Also it is not just about climbing as some sessions include shoulder girdle and core strength exercises along with cardio.

It is best if this PE training is part of a greater periodization program starting out with Strength building, Power, then PE and finally Performance. I would not recommend this program as a stand alone training guide, so you will need to find other programs on strength and power. As already referenced Becthel's and Monomaniac's websites have useful information for free (or purchase).

Another word on the PE training program is that you will need access to a climbing gym that offers both roped climbing and bouldering as individual sessions will require high volume of climbing, mostly just below your onsight level.

Additionally you will need a patient belayer, best if this person is doing the same program and you can trade off belays during the sessions. And it goes without saying that it is difficult to get volume climbing during crowded hours in the gym. Some days require you to climb up to 20 - 30 minutes in a row on different routes. One day for example has pyramid climbing of eight routes in a row starting from easy to hard and back down to easy, rest 20 minutes and repeat from two to three sets.

Good luck.

20kn has a point. Its more about your will power than a training guide you choose. If one WANTS to get better, he/she will.

Having said that, self coached climber and anderson program seems like the popular way to find an effective training routine. Have a blast and stay focused if u want the results!

Yeah tbh my husband and I tried in vain to do 4x4s on routes in the gym over the winter to train endurance(obviously) and we could not get it done with the amount of people in the gym at any given time. However we live in Boulder, so maybe some people have less crowded gyms?

Kelly P wrote:Yeah tbh my husband and I tried in vain to do 4x4s on routes in the gym over the winter to train endurance(obviously) and we could not get it done with the amount of people in the gym at any given time. However we live in Boulder, so maybe some people have less crowded gyms?

So you don't think training is a good idea because your gym is too crowded to do it?

No I was agreeing with an above poster that mentioned you will have to have a patient belayer and the room/ability to do the endurance workout. It is very very hard for us to do the endurance workout because there is just not room to do so. I train 4 days a week and climb outside 2 days. I strongly believe training works, but if I were to spend money on a program I would want to know if I had the facilities as you will to complete it. Now if I worked off hours it wouldn't be an issue of course, but I am stuck at the gym with every other person and two youth teams. Every route has a line for 3-4 hours a night.

i have always had the same problems with PE and ARC workouts. They are almost impossible to execute effectively if you are a 9 to 5 working stiff that climbs at a popular gym. honestly, i don't really train either of these cycles anymore. usually, if i can do the individual moves i feel like i have a pretty good shot of putting it all together.

slim wrote:i have always had the same problems with PE and ARC workouts. They are almost impossible to execute effectively if you are a 9 to 5 working stiff that climbs at a popular gym.

I think that this is where climbing gyms need to evolve from being simply recreational gyms for lapping routes or doing boulder problems to also include more training specific climbing zones or system boards. Even for Power training most gym boulder problems are useless for "limit bouldering" (unless you only pick the one or two hardest moves) so I find this training is more effective on a system board.

Coming back to Power Endurance training Becthel advises that PE training should not be done under circunstances that compromise climbing technique (for example what happens when you are doing route pyramids just under your onsight level)and he favors system board training (free videos and articles online).

Personally I would like to see more system boards (ideally with symmetric left and right hold configurations).

slim wrote:i have always had the same problems with PE and ARC workouts. They are almost impossible to execute effectively if you are a 9 to 5 working stiff that climbs at a popular gym.

Gyms aren't nearly as busy at 6am & the guys/gals there are really motivated, just saying...

reboot wrote: Gyms aren't nearly as busy at 6am & the guys/gals there are really motivated, just saying...

but you still need a belayer...

Rui Ferreira wrote: but you still need a belayer...

What for?

I have an unlimited membership to the gym that I like to "climb at" and I'll head there after work when I want to boulder and hang w/ friends.

I have a "punch card" to another gym (with better training apparatuses) that opens at 6am. When I want a training session, I go there… at 6am… when no one can get in my way or distract me.

Jake Jones wrote:I don't think it's worth it, but I think I know enough to pinpoint my weaknesses and employ an effective means to combat them. Some people do not. It may be worth it to those folks, depending upon a myriad of factors- how much time you have, how much money you have, how important improvement is, how quickly you want to improve, etc. Some people know how to find their weaknesses and have fun experimenting with ways to attack them. Then again, some people have the time and inclination to find out what that clicking noise in the engine compartment is, I just pay a mechanic. I think that "anyone can climb 5.12" is not necessarily incorrect, but is a bit broad. Sure, anyone can. I agree. But with specific training, or without- especially if you're not from a family of athletes? And sure anyone can- but after climbing 2 years, or 10? What kind of 5.12? Facey sport, or desperate overhung finger cracks, or brutal whole-body OW? I suck just enough to lead myself to believe I need specific training to improve, which I'm doing now (another Anderson book plug). I'm just barely enough of a self-starter to do my own research and implement my own plan based on what has been successful not for just the pros, but local guys and gals with similar plateaus to myself, and with similar body types- those that have been successful in training. It's subjective. That's the real answer. What's "worth it" to some, may not be to others, and for a whole host of reasons that vary from climber to climber. My advice is that before you dump a lump of cash on a program- pick the brains of your local pool of hard climbers, and seek people that have similar goals and/or plateau issues as you and see what they have done, and then research what's available to you. But then again, it may not be worth it to do all this work.

"Anyone can climb 5.12" is definitely vague. I guess what I meant was:

If you pick out a few 5.12 routes that suit you (sport, trad, crack, face, overhung, slab, whatever) and you work them like you really care, you'll be able to red point them. The average climber won't need any more training than what he or she will get by working the routes.

But then one could argue that working a route IS training. Climbing with a purpose is almost always more productive than just going out and having fun, and it's hard to argue that climbing with a purpose is not training. It's just not a detailed plan that you see in the books.

To be able to do ANY 5.12? To be able to ONSIGHT 5.12? Most climbers will need a bit of actual training to be able to do that. More than just a lot of climbing. PROBABLY a detailed plan like you see in the books!

I agree with you that paying for training plans is different for everyone. It absolutely depends on your own personal circumstances. Me? I have no problem paying out money for a good book, or three. If I was presented with an opportunity to have someone produce a tailored training plan for me, I might pay for that too. I'm not going out and looking for that opportunity because I don't care that much about getting better, but if I did I would probably spend the money. It would mean me getting stronger, and instead of spending my time researching training plans I can spend time working, which means I make more money and have more to spend on people who will do things for me!

reboot wrote: Gyms aren't nearly as busy at 6am & the guys/gals there are really motivated, just saying...

i have an hour commute though and have to be there fairly early. i do agree though, when i used to work out of my home, it was a lot better going to the gym at odd hours during the day.

Alexander Blum wrote: What for?

in the context of doing Power Endurance training workouts like route pyramids, hard/easy route sets, route 4x4's, etc. as detailed in the trainingbeta.com PE program, which is in the context of what the OP asked...perhaps difficult to follow since this discussion has taken so many turns.

Bottom line to do not purchase the online PE program if you do not have access to the gym facilities (routes, bouldering problems, minimal crowds) and belaying partners. This is not self evident before you make the purchase and one of the reasons I presume the OP was asking for community input.

signing out on this topic.

Jake Jones wrote:My impetus to train is based solely on climbing harder so I will never have to wait to get on a line I want to climb and/or have more options when I get out.

Ha, that makes more sense than 99% of the stuff I read on this forum!

I have been sussing out a program for me over the past few days. Its coming along real well.

reboot wrote: Gyms aren't nearly as busy at 6am & the guys/gals there are really motivated, just saying...

Please ignore Reboot's comment. He clearly justs wants you to get up early and suffer.