BLM vs Bundy
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The Bundy supporters on site were gun toting idiots and bored people from Vegas ...not other BLM ranchers. That speaks volumes. I raised catted for a living, studied soil and plant science and got a degree in Animal Science. Anyone who has in depth knowledge of RESPONSIBLE ranching principles and practice knows full well that running cattle in these deserts is ridiculous and harmful on the long term ecology. They told him his lease was for 100 cows and he ran a 1000 instead. He is a thief and greedy bastard who could care less for the sustainability of the desert. He deserves to be in jail far more than some kid dealing crack in Las Vegas. |
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Just read where the Bundy family has been grazing cattle in the area of this jurisdictional conflict since 1954......heck, that's almost as long as I've been alive. Things are pretty darn sweet in the land of Bundy.......you get to take or use what you want, when you want, for as long as you want......and decide when it is you will pay for it, if you do at all.....on your own time. All I gotta do is start declaring stuff to be mine just because I've been around long enough...... |
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Though the Bundy's have been ranching there since the 1880s, it does not appear they have a leg to stand on legally. Seems he is the last rancher in that immediate area and his ranch will disappear into history as the feds have slowly bled out the rest of the ranchers in the area. My only question is why bring in the BLM army? ( Why does the BLM even have paramilitary in the first place? ) Couldn't you just arrest Mr Bundy when he drives off his ranch? |
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Yeah, what a hero! |
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This guy is the biggest shyster deadbeat...... and then there are all the poor suckers that bought into his don't-tread-on-me schtick |
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It's been a while since I've seen a thread as great as this. Keep it coming. |
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I want to tell you one more thing I know about the Negro...they abort their young children, they put their young men in jail, because they never learned how to pick cotton. And Ive often wondered, are they better off as slaves, picking cotton and having a family life and doing things, or are they better off under government subsidy?" --Cliven Bundy |
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Ahhh, no more sympathy for Mr. Bundy. I wonder how he will go. Only a matter of time now before he gets greased. Looks like a few people will be happy when he's gone. |
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D.Buffum wrote: And of course, the contempt of court matter is separate and distinct from any crimes that he and his posse may have committed during the standoff related to weapons, threatening federal agents, holding hostages, or other crimes.Wow, he did all of that. I wonder if the BLM LE can just roll in there with an MRAP, run over his cattle and flatten his house. They ought to be able to put some drone surveillance in the air to make sure there are no militia around. I would recommend hellfire missles but that would going to far, these are civilian police after all. |
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D.Buffum wrote: Note the use of the modal verb "may have," indicating that I do not know whether he and his sympathizers committed any crimes.I have no idea what this "modal verb" stuff is. I am not arguing with you. For all I know you may have spent time in prison once and have prison gang associations. No way am I going to mess with you. This is the internet, all kinds of psychos lurking out there. But I get the point you are trying to make. |
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Rick Blair wrote: Wow, he did all of that. I wonder if the BLM LE can just roll in there with an MRAP, run over his cattle and flatten his house. They ought to be able to put some drone surveillance in the air to make sure there are no militia around. I would recommend hellfire missles but that would going to far, these are civilian police after all.Nuke from orbit. Behead any remains. |
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Rick Blair wrote: Wow, he did all of that. I wonder if the BLM LE can just roll in there with an MRAP, run over his cattle and flatten his house. They ought to be able to put some drone surveillance in the air to make sure there are no militia around. I would recommend hellfire missles but that would going to far, these are civilian police after all.You know, the crazy, paranoid people used to be on the left in the 60s. They imagined all these same terrible things the government would do, only a very little of which actually happened. But they were smoking a lot of weed, so it was more understandable. The conservatives were the pragmatic, realists then. Paradoxically, it has flip flopped and the right wing just keeps getting further and further out there. Glen Beck, who has a ranch, says that Bundy should pay his grazing fees. What the hell is Bundy and his true believers smoking that Glen Beck can call BS on him? Never thought there were come a day when liberals would become the realists. |
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I really hope this hick ends up in one them jails full of "young negro men with nothing to do." Can we get this on FOX as a reality TV show please? |
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Not to say they are perfect by any means, but the BLM seems to do a pretty good job of trying to balance the interests of various user groups. Unlike Bundy, they use real data and rational processes. However, when faced with an irrational, militant user who has a powerful vested interest, they're in a tough spot. |
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For the sake of arguement I would say that there are far more savory characters exposing wrong doings than unsavory. There are entire organizations devoted to this but not many hear them. |
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SinRopa wrote:Government wrongdoings are often exposed by unsavory characters. Ernesto Miranda was a kidnapper and child rapist. Because of his case, the police have to read you your rights before they can question you, and our justice system is better for it. Rodney King was an armed robber, drug dealer, and wife beater. His interaction with the LAPD exposed a widespread culture of police brutality, and our justice system is better for it. Cliven Bundy is clearly a bigot who is trying to avoid paying what he owes. That doesn't mean that the events surrounding his case can't have a positive outcome: exposing heavy handed intimidation tactics and unconstitutional actions ("free speech zones") committed by agents representing the federal government.Best response in the thread. |
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jeff walz wrote:Good points Ropeless. Well said. As for today's news: Cliven needs to brush up on his Nat Love. He might also consider the relationship between SNAP (food stamps) and the USDA. Farmers and ranchers receive aid. Both ends of the spectrum get welfare.I'm sure Bundy would rather brush up on the CSPOA ( cspoa.org/) and the Posse Comitatus ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse…). These groups have a long history or racism and antisemiticism that follow the sovereigh citizen movement ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sover…). Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols were (maybe are) sovereign citizens. So it's not unreasonable that the BLM came prepared to Nevada. |
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The issue of Free Speech Zones has been around for far too long. Wikipedia Wikipedia article has a fairly good entry. These have been used to limit speech in a variety of areas--from UC Berkeley in the early 1960s to the most recent incidents. The use of Free Speech Zones was greatly expanded in the Bush year. It was mostly used to stop people from protesting Bush's policies. Simply wearing the "wrong" t-shirt could get you sent to a fenced area completely out of sight and sound of the event. |
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Yes, it keeps getting more instructive too. I think we need to think about how we, as climbers, view land managers. It's pretty easy to ascribe suspicious motives to them, when our suspicions should be (at least sometimes) more focused on the characters, such as Bundy, that land managers have to deal with. |