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Any glaring holes in my sport rack?

Craig Childre · · Lubbock, TX · Joined Aug 2006 · Points: 4,860

May I suggest you drop those bail biners. They're single use dead weight!!!!! Spend $8 for a couple of dog bones, and build quickdraws (dual purpose)

You will find some excuse to use that bail specific gear. Unintentionally and unnecessarily looking for a reason to fail and bail.

Bailing should be the last thing on your mind. If you are forced to bail. Break up that quick draw and you've got a couple of bail biners.

Antonio Caligiuri · · Bishop, CA · Joined Oct 2013 · Points: 66

Sorry, I guess I didn't properly clarify. Siberia is right though I meant everything for a day of cragging. Not necessarily what I take every time I start up a route.

But anyway, seems like I still need:

-2 nylon runners (nylon instead of dyneema to minimize wear on my harness) on lockers for going in direct. Should these both then be girth hitched through my tie in points?
-2 alpine draws
-2 prusiks (6mm cord)
-1 triple length (90cm) sling for rigging top rope, I already have the 4 lockers

Sam.King wrote:If the sling with an overhand knot and the positron is for cleaning, you should take the knot out, because its just weakening the sling and unnecessary.
Sam thanks for the tip, knot is removed!

Also, I'll be holding off on the 70m sub-10mm rope for next season. Can't really justify spending that money if I'm only climbing 5.9-5.10

EDIT: Oh and I'll leave the webbing at home...haha
Alvaro Arnal · · Aspen, CO · Joined May 2010 · Points: 1,535

Why prussiks? This is sport cragging, right? Not an alpine adventure.

doligo · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2008 · Points: 269
Siberia wrote: Also, my 'oh shit biner' which is actually two old lockers and two prusiks is with me EVERY time i leave the ground whether TR or trad.
I thought all you needed was a dogging draw for a TR, all the rest is dead weight!
Sam.King · · Richmond, VA · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 5

No problem.

and Alvaro, having a prussik loop can be really helpfully while sport climbing if you need to do a rescue belay capture, in you need to pick-off (ascend) to help a stuck climber, or backing a rappel for going hands free while cleaning gear off the wall or just for safety.

Oh, and also backing up being lowered on a bail biner if you fail to finish a sport route.

doligo · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2008 · Points: 269
Sam.King wrote:No problem. and Alvaro, having a prussik loop can be really helpfully while sport climbing if you need to do a rescue belay capture, in you need to pick-off (ascend) to help a stuck climber, or backing a rappel for going hands free while cleaning gear off the wall or just for safety.
That's what a Gri Gri for, and for rappels, don't you just wrap your leg or get a fireman's from a partner?
Alvaro Arnal · · Aspen, CO · Joined May 2010 · Points: 1,535
Sam.King wrote:No problem. and Alvaro, having a prussik loop can be really helpfully while sport climbing if you need to do a rescue belay capture, in you need to pick-off (ascend) to help a stuck climber, or backing a rappel for going hands free while cleaning gear off the wall or just for safety. Oh, and also backing up being lowered on a bail biner if you fail to finish a sport route.
Can you give me a scenario in a sport cragging situation where you would need to escape the belay and ascend the rope to help a stuck climber as opposed to just lowering them back to the ground?

As for rappelling: don't rappel off of sport routes; lowering through the anchor is quicker, easier and safer.

Prussik for bailing from a bolt: I've never seen anyone do this and unless you're bailing off an old, manky bolt I think it's an overly-irrational fear that the bolt you are lowering from is going to pull out. If you're bailing from that bolt then chances are you've already taken repeated falls on it trying to get past that section of climbing. If the bolt survived the forces of falling on it repeatedly it isn't suddenly going to fail while you're lowering off of it.

I'm not trying to rag on anyone's methods for doing things but since the OP is new to climbing and is asking about gear I think that he should at least be aware that a lot of the stuff people are mentioning is completely overkill for a day of sport cragging. Sport climbing is supposed to be fun in its simplicity; adding all of this extra gear and complexity only adds to confusion, less efficiency at the crag, and a longer day filled with more gear finagling and less climbing.
Jon Zucco · · Denver, CO · Joined Aug 2008 · Points: 245
ChefMattThaner wrote:a couple alpine draws are essential for extending placements under roofs and overhangs.
yep
ze dirtbag · · Tahoe · Joined Jun 2012 · Points: 50

^^^ #nailed_it

Eric D · · Gnarnia · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 235

I really hope that the guys that said prussiks are trolling. If so, well done.

Sam.King · · Richmond, VA · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 5

Doligo, yea leg wrap for hands free and fireman's for lowering works too. Too be honest, thats what I normally do. An auto block back up is just another way to back it up.

Alvaro, as for ascending the rope, I was more thinking about top roping and the only real scenario I can think of is belaying a kid who refuses to leave a ledge. So, you're right, its probably not relevant. As for lower off a bolt, you bring up a good point that a bolt thats already held a few falls is probably really trust worthy and backing up lowering off it could be looked at as overkill. But unless you know the age of the bolt and whats been done on it, you never know and theres always that slight, awful chance it could give out as you bail on it. It's just climbers preference on what level of risk they want to mitigate.

I agree with you last statement. A lot of this is probably unnecessary for simple sport climbing. There's different ways to do certain things, but efficiency is key to climbing as much as possible.

NickMartel · · Tucson, Arizona · Joined Aug 2011 · Points: 1,332

Here is what you said you have:
-12 quickdraws on dogbones
-1 Edelrid Mega Jul belay device on HMS locking biner
-1 BD ATC-XP on locking biner
-1 60cm Mammut sling on locker for going in direct and cleaning
-2 oval lockers
-2 spare lockers
-1 petzl non-locker
-3 BD neutrino (bail biners)

Here is what I would add:

-2 trad/alpine draws (1x 36" dynemma sling, 1x small ultra-light wiregate biner (Nano23), 1x full size ultra-light wiregate biner) for under roofs, off line bolts, or single gear placements on otherwise sport lines.

-1 double locker quickdraw (1x dogbone, 1x ultra-light locking biner, 1x full size large diameter locking biner) for setting up TR anchors.

-1 double locker trad/alpine draw (1x 60cm dynemma sling, 1x ultra-light locking biner, 1x full size large diameter locking biner) for setting up TR anchors.

-1 nylon daisy chain for PAS (to be coupled with your 60cm sling (should switch to nylon)

-1 60cm nylon sling

-1 15-20cm nylon sling (to be girth hitched to 60cm nylon sling to give you 2 possible lengths)

-1 Gri-Gri (version 1 or 2)

-1 70m 9.8-10.2mm rope (a 2ed 60m rope is nice to have to save wear and tear when you don't need all 70m but it is not essential, as is a sub 9.2mm skinny rope for at your limit redpoint attempts)

-1 Shunt for backing up raps, going hands free on raps for tough to unclip draws etc... It's way better than any prussic system.

-1 small adjustable "monkey wrench" for loose bolts.

-1 small wire or nylon brush (depending on rock type wire for igneious rock and nylon for sedimentary rock)

Just my two cents. YMMV.

Craig Childre · · Lubbock, TX · Joined Aug 2006 · Points: 4,860
Alvaro Arnal wrote: Can you give me a scenario in a sport cragging situation where you would need to escape the belay and ascend the rope to help a stuck climber as opposed to just lowering them back to the ground?
YES... A leader knocked unconscious while climbing on or above a mid pitch ledge that makes a lower impossible.

ALSO.... Any multi-pitch sport route, above the first pitch.
Craig Childre · · Lubbock, TX · Joined Aug 2006 · Points: 4,860
doligo wrote: That's what a Gri Gri for, and for rappels, don't you just wrap your leg or get a fireman's from a partner?
Gri Gri cannot climb a tensioned rope, like you will encounter in most rescue scenarios.

Gri Gri is a single strand device. Who raps off a sport route using their Gri Gri? Consider the last time I rappelled on a single strand at a sport crag? Never! Unless you wanted to count my simu-raps... that still used both strands IMO ;)

In a rap situation, should rock fall knock out the rappelled who is using a tube and prussic backup, the catch would be immediate, where the Gri Gri will probably catch, just know, there is a possibility that it could feed freely instead of clamping down, example would be falling down a low angle slab.

I only like to use the Gri Gri when my partner is hang dogging or projecting. I prefer the feel and control I get out of a tube. Where the lever action of the Gri can give a shaky ride. I've also seen too many 5 foot lead falls that ended up being 20-30' screamers because of belayer/Gri Gri error.
ze dirtbag · · Tahoe · Joined Jun 2012 · Points: 50

so antonio......as i guess you have figured out, there are two schools of thought.

1- you're fine with what you have (maybe add a gri gri when you get the funds)

2- fill your harness with everything under the sun.....just in case

it all comes down to personal preference. if you feel safer with 7 prussiks, 34 lockers, 2 cordalettes, wrenches, brushes, jumars & a stick clip....then get a big pack. maybe you feel better having the basics, knowing your gear and how to use it to it's full potential if shit goes bad....and weighing 4 lbs less. it sounds like you're a new leader, i think you'd be better served by taking what money you would spend on all this extra gear and buying a couple 12 packs to convince better climbers to take you to the crag and teach you how to become a competent/confident leader.

Alvaro Arnal · · Aspen, CO · Joined May 2010 · Points: 1,535
Craig Childre wrote: YES... A leader knocked unconscious while climbing on or above a mid pitch ledge that makes a lower impossible.
So your solution to this is to escape the belay and prussic up the rope that the climber is tied into, using the unconscious climber as a counter-weight? If your climber fell, got knocked unconscious, and hit a ledge large enough that he can't be lowered off of I would argue that you don't want to bounce around on the rope trying to prussik in case he has a spinal injury.

Craig Childre wrote:ALSO.... Any multi-pitch sport route, above the first pitch.
While multi-pitch climbing can change the gear needed to safely do the climb, in this scenario there's no difference: lower the climber to the anchor you are tied in to, pull the rope, resume rescue.

Craig Childre wrote:Gri Gri is a single strand device. Who raps off a sport route using their Gri Gri? Consider the last time I rappelled on a single strand at a sport crag? Never! Unless you wanted to count my simu-raps... that still used both strands IMO ;) In a rap situation, should rock fall knock out the rappelled who is using a tube and prussic backup, the catch would be immediate, where the Gri Gri will probably catch, just know, there is a possibility that it could feed freely instead of clamping down, example would be falling down a low angle slab.
Who raps off a sport route in general? Usually the people carrying all the superfluous gear. Like I mentioned above, lower off of sport anchors; it's quicker, easier and safer.

Craig Childre wrote:I only like to use the Gri Gri when my partner is hang dogging or projecting. I prefer the feel and control I get out of a tube. Where the lever action of the Gri can give a shaky ride. I've also seen too many 5 foot lead falls that ended up being 20-30' screamers because of belayer/Gri Gri error.
Hang dogging is part of sport climbing. A gri gri (along with proper knowledge on how to use it) is in every way safer than using a tube device. For sport climbing I don't know why anyone would use anything else. Dialing in the lever action of the gri gri comes with experience in using it; it can be just as smooth as lowering with an ATC. And 5 foot falls ending up being 30' falls? That's belayer error no matter what type of device they are using!
Sean Brokaw · · Boulder, CO · Joined Dec 2012 · Points: 5

^great use of the word superfluous!
I usually bring a rope, quickdraws, and a grigri to the crag and that's it.

Guy Keesee · · Moorpark, CA · Joined Mar 2008 · Points: 349
"""No problem. and Alvaro, having a prussik loop can be really helpfully while sport climbing if you need to do a rescue belay capture, in you need to pick-off (ascend) to help a stuck climber, or backing a rappel for going hands free while cleaning gear off the wall or just for safety.

Oh, and also backing up being lowered on a bail biner if you fail to finish a sport route
.""""

Never used a prussik Sport Climbing before. The last part made me courious.

How do you protect yourself, while being lowered, from a bail biner?????
Danny M · · CO · Joined Aug 2011 · Points: 125

If that was my gear I would switch out 3 of the bent gate quickdraws and put the wire gate Neutrinos on the rope end instead. Then use the bent gates as your bail biners. I would also put the Petzl keylock on the bolt side of one of them. If those are Omega Pacific draws I find their bent gates much tougher to clip than the Neutrinos, plus the Neutrinos are lighter.

will ar · · Vermont · Joined Jan 2010 · Points: 290
Sam.King wrote: Oh, and also backing up being lowered on a bail biner if you fail to finish a sport route.
Sam, care to explain how you are using a prussik to protect yourself in this situation? I think we are all confused is to what exactly you are trying to say.

Alvaro Arnal wrote:lower the climber to the anchor you are tied in to, pull the rope, resume rescue.
Lowering the climber to the anchor is a little difficult if you have more than half the rope out or if the pitch traverses at all and the leader is too injured to pendulum back to the belay.

Alvaro Arnal wrote:So your solution to this is to escape the belay and prussic up the rope that the climber is tied into, using the unconscious climber as a counter-weight?
This is a widely accepted practice if the leader is too injured to bail on his own and can't be lowered to the anchor. Maybe try googling self rescue.

Edited to fix quotes.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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