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Wait, what grade do you lead?!?!

Original Post
Trad Princess · · Not That Into Climbing · Joined Jan 2012 · Points: 1,175

Climbers,

You are kicking around the idea of climbing with someone new. Route is a little committing. You're trying to get a sense of the other person; do you really want to tie in with this person?

They tell you they lead 5.X

What do you believe?

In my experience, people tend to puff themselves up a bit, maybe a grade or two more than they're actually comfortable leading.

Besides ego, why do people fib? Maybe that's the only reason?

csproul · · Pittsboro...sort of, NC · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 330

mostly ego...I as guilty as anyone, I'm sure.

But it's also kind of a hard question to answer without being more specific. Onsight? Redpoint? Quantity? Do they climb at soft areas or on sandbags? Competent crack climber or steep sporty routes? I find it easier to get a sense of a person's ability if they can be specific about routes they've climbed, whether they led the crux pitches, etc...If you want a specific answer, you need to ask specific questions.

KathyS · · Poughkeepsie, NY · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 125

I don't think there is one single answer to that question. It depends on who you are talking to. Personally, I'll tell you what I am comfortable onsighting, trad, anywhere, and not just at my familiar home crag. I've lead the occasional harder route, but am not going to commit to it. But, I'm a woman over 50 with no need to prove anything to anyone. I have no ego. As a gross generalization that will no doubt have many exceptions, I think young people, especially men, are more likely to inflate their lead ability than more seasoned folks.

Trad Princess · · Not That Into Climbing · Joined Jan 2012 · Points: 1,175
csproul wrote:mostly ego...I as guilty as anyone, I'm sure. But it's also kind of a hard question to answer without being more specific. Onsight? Redpoint? Quantity? Do they climb at soft areas or on sandbags? I find it easier to get a sense of a person's ability if they can be specific about routes they've climbed, whether they led the crux pitches, etc...If you want a specific answer, you need to ask specific questions.
I think I should have been more specific with my 1st post. I'm talking multi-pitch trad/alpine climbing, specifically. New potential partner, route is most likely new as well, so it's basically as onsight as you can get. Perhaps I'm answering my own question in a way - should I even be messing with a stranger on a multi-pitch trad route? Maybe. Maybe not.

How do I answer? I give the grade I'm comfortable onsighting, which is what I'd expect in such a scenario from a potential pahtnah. Often, you find out the hard way on the route itself. Daddy no likey.
Aerili · · Los Alamos, NM · Joined Mar 2007 · Points: 1,875

I tend to be skeptical until proven otherwise - unless the individual seems really down to earth and low key about their statements.

For the most part, I prefer to do a get-to-know-ya day with a new partner whenever possible; that is, something well within both our abilities. I would rarely want to do a committing route with someone I had not climbed with before. Even if they can definitely climb grade "x", there is a lot to partner compatibility and style that is just as important and can make or break an experience.

However, occasionally there are those partners with whom you just get an intuitive good vibe. Then go for it!

leon · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2014 · Points: 15

I say you give them a chance (depending on how desperate you are for climbing buddies). If they decide to bail mid way or sketch out, use the opportunity to push your own limits in an " what if " situation. Stack odds in your favor. Ultimate decision to trust them is yours. Who knows why people fib, ego aside, they may want to have a strong partner who will bring them up the pitches they would not have done on lead themselves and trying to impress.

kboofis · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2011 · Points: 20
Adam Burch wrote: I think I should have been more specific with my 1st post. I'm talking multi-pitch trad/alpine climbing, specifically. New potential partner, route is most likely new as well, so it's basically as onsight as you can get. Perhaps I'm answering my own question in a way - should I even be messing with a stranger on a multi-pitch trad route? Maybe. Maybe not. How do I answer? I give the grade I'm comfortable onsighting, which is what I'd expect in such a scenario from a potential pahtnah. Often, you find out the hard way on the route itself. Daddy no likey.
Go climb with them for a day before the 'big' one
Trad Princess · · Not That Into Climbing · Joined Jan 2012 · Points: 1,175

Lot of interesting responses, some good points.

I know I could go crag with them to find out, my question is more "what do you answer yourself?" or "why do people stretch it?". Interested in the psychology of it a bit, I guess.

I tend to agree this is more of a male thing than a female thing, although to be fair - I very rarely climb with women, so perhaps I'm talking out of my behind.

Cale Hoopes · · Sammamish, WA · Joined Nov 2012 · Points: 10

Ultimately, I'd rather hear what they HAVE done instead of what they DO. And I wanna hear that they are humble about it. Otherwise, they are OUT.

Jim Hooper · · greenwood village, co · Joined Aug 2012 · Points: 0

They say 5.X leader - I assume 2 number grades lower until I have seen them, or even lower if I have clues otherwise. And as someone else said, "5.X on what?" is the first friendly polite question. A 5.X face climber may be thrashing on much easier (by rating) cracks or vice versa. You have got to know they are good to go on the routes you'll be climbing - they can send the particular type of terrain, they can handle the anchor and ropework, they can handle the length/setting - wouldn't jump on a long route at or near anyone's stated limit off the bat - work up to it. I'd rather do a long Grade II or III with a partner who can just make the moves and needs to follow but is very solid on systems rather than some one who tells me "5.11" based on who knows what and learn when I get to their first anchor that they are a good athlete but lousy mechanic or when they get pinned with 3/4 of the rope out on a feature that doesn't exist in their gym or sport crag. Did that once - won't do it again.

csproul · · Pittsboro...sort of, NC · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 330
Adam Burch wrote: I think I should have been more specific with my 1st post. I'm talking multi-pitch trad/alpine climbing, specifically. New potential partner, route is most likely new as well, so it's basically as onsight as you can get. Perhaps I'm answering my own question in a way - should I even be messing with a stranger on a multi-pitch trad route? Maybe. Maybe not. How do I answer? I give the grade I'm comfortable onsighting, which is what I'd expect in such a scenario from a potential pahtnah. Often, you find out the hard way on the route itself. Daddy no likey.
I think what I'm saying still stands. I think it gives more information to a prospective partner to tell them the grade you onsight, but also include pertinent examples. MIght be hard to do without sounding like spray. I probably wouldn't do a committing route with an unknown partner unless I knew that they had already succeeded on similar undertakings.
Tronald Dump · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2013 · Points: 10

around here theres so many gym climbers, so everyone pretends to lead 5.11-5.12, generally I have a get to know ya day, and rock out some 4-6 pitche 5.5, 5.6's. Generally I find the 5.11-5.12 gym climbers can comfortably play around sustained 5.8's, endurance wise.... but its hilarious to watch them ome up to a 5.6 pure jamming section and have them get stumped looking for holds or something to grab onto. Even more funny when its 5" 5.8 after a runout friction slab 2500 feet off the deck. they always get the ..... "ÿou said you climbed 5.11" treatment.

or the 5.12 gym climbers that get helicopter rescues off 4th class.... that always gets me worrying...

Matt N · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 415

You take your hardest toprope flail "ascent", then add 2 grades - I thought everyone knew this?

MojoMonkey · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2009 · Points: 66
Tronald Dump wrote:around here theres so many gym climbers, so everyone pretends to lead 5.11-5.12, generally I have a get to know ya day, and rock out some 4-6 pitche 5.5, 5.6's. Generally I find the 5.11-5.12 gym climbers can comfortably play around sustained 5.8's, endurance wise.... but its hilarious to watch them ome up to a 5.6 pure jamming section and have them get stumped looking for holds or something to grab onto. Even more funny when its 5" 5.8 after a runout friction slab 2500 feet off the deck. they always get the ..... "ÿou said you climbed 5.11" treatment. or the 5.12 gym climbers that get helicopter rescues off 4th class.... that always gets me worrying...
You sound pretty studly. So many gym climbers are convincingly stretching the truth just to get a shot at spending the day with you.

Otherwise I can't imagine you'd really regularly end up in the situation you describe unless you just like lording your 5.6 crack skills over gym climbers. Seems like you could easily weed out such large discrepancies with a little conversation before getting to an entire "get to know ya day".
Tronald Dump · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2013 · Points: 10

no, its reinforcing the point of getting to know you. hahaha, I blow at anything remotely resembling a sport climb. Just good at shoving limbs into holes is all i got.. I just run into people who would rather cite their gym grade, than say, Ï don't know. I've never done any trad/outdoor climbing before. Its fun to watch someone who has the strength but not technique sometimes. you know, a little climbing irony? because I'd never really claim to climb anything beyond .10d handcracks.

Eric D · · Gnarnia · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 235

I have found that less experienced climbers inflate the grade that they can climb. More experienced climbers down-play it.

It is my impression that the more experienced a climber, the less ego comes into play. They usually have enough solid achievements under their belts that they don't need to puff up their ego.

I think that the tone/attitude someone takes in answering that question provides a lot of insight.

iceman777 · · Colorado Springs · Joined Oct 2007 · Points: 60

Idk I like to feel out the situation differently , if I'm climbing with someone I've never climbed with before after I'm comfortable with there belay skills I'll hit some easy shit then see how they react
As time goes on I'll up the anti a bit , this cam happen in the same day .

My motto that holds true for new climbing partners is I never climb something I'm not willing to solo
Because basically you are until your comfortable with that persons ability . I'd rather hang my ass out
With a good belayer watching my back then an unknown quantity .

After we become comfortable then it's just the mind fuck of the route and who has the biggest balls .

Rob WardenSpaceLizard · · las Vegans, the cosmic void · Joined Dec 2011 · Points: 130

if they belay well, you lead the crux pitch... they can always jug a line if they are in way over their head... I have had to jug, I have had others jug. we all get the wind knocked out of our sails or puffed into them from time to time.

The Blueprint Part Dank · · FEMA Region VIII · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 460
Rob Warden, Space Lizard wrote:if they belay well, you lead the crux pitch... they can always jug a line if they are in way over their head... I have had to jug, I have had others jug. we all get the wind knocked out of our sails or puffed into them from time to time.
That's absolutely true. In the alpine, I care less about the grade, and more about their ability to do all the various tricks in the book, like going A0 through a hard move, or rigging their gri gri above their tie-in point to quickly pull through a section that's in over their heads. I generally think that a better question than how hard do you climb, is asking what other alpine climbs one has done, and if they felt comfortable carrying their share of the weight on said climbs.

Immediately assuming that someone inflates their own skill level is unfair to many climbers who, like myself, realize that eventually the truth finds you out. It's not like you're asking "like bro, what do you bench?"
Mike · · Phoenix · Joined May 2006 · Points: 2,615

IMHO... If a guy says he leads 5.10, then he probably leads 5.9. If a woman says she leads 5.10, she probably leads 5.11a.

mountainhick · · Black Hawk, CO · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 120

I think rather that "how hard do you lead" questions like "OK, if we climb tomorrow, what are you ready to lead?", and "what similar climbs have you lead clean in the last couple weeks?" tends to get more useful answers.

Tick lists in profiles here can be very telling as well.

And unless I know someone's reputation already, no way I am hooking up for multi pitch or alpine anywhere near leading maximums on the first date. You're asking for trouble.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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