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grey and purple mastercams in horizontals?

Original Post
doublediamond100 · · Thousand Oaks, CA · Joined Apr 2011 · Points: 0

I recently got the two smallest mastercams and am having second thoughts about them. I mostly climb at the gunks and although I had heard about the concern regarding the trigger retracting the cams when the unit is loaded over an edge the consensus seemed to be that in practice it wasn't an issue. On one hand, I trust metolius as a company (as much as you can trust any company anyway) but on the other the fact that I can get the top lobes to retract about half way when bending the unit where the cable enters the braze is kinda scary and not an issue with the larger #4 I have. So given that mastercams have been out for a while, I want to see what experiences people have had with the smallest two mastercams in horizontal placements. Does the retraction just not happen when the lobes are engaged against the rock? Thanks in advance for your replies.

Ryan Nevius · · Perchtoldsdorf, AT · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 1,832

Go try it?

Larry S · · Easton, PA · Joined May 2010 · Points: 872

It's an edge case, but it can happen, the bend has to occur just right at the little "coil" around the cable with the lobes moderately cammed. Flex it at that spot in your hands and you can see the lobes retract a bit. I noticed it on my Blue MC, I placed it and gave it a little tug down and it pulled right out. I forget what climb I was on, maybe Classic backing up that pin? Anyway, i was low to the ground, and my partner tossed me a blue TCU.

Brasky · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 0

I just took whip after whip today on my purple 0 mastercam, granted it was in an ideal placement, under a roof placed vertically in a seam and extended. I have been using the purple mastercam for 2 seasons in the gunks and absolutley love it. Even after today the thing looks fine. If your concerned place the piece on the ground and body weight it and see how/if it moves.

And Wilk · · Espanola, NM · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 55

With those small cams I would worry more about the actual placements than this. Especially in the gunks horizontals that can be pebbly and uneven.

Medic741 · · Des Moines, IA (WTF) · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 265

Tricams.

Jeffrey Dunn · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2007 · Points: 229

I'm not sure about the technical aspects of why this may or may not be an issue, but if I were you I would go get a cam I had more faith in because its going to hold you back. I stopped using my good (non dimpled) aliens for several years after that whole mess as a result of lingering trust issues that were affecting my lead head.

gtluke · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2012 · Points: 1

My climbing buddy climbs on mastercams, and we climb at the gunks. Following up like 100 routes now I'm really getting sold on the mastercams. They ARE tricky to get out of gunks cracks, but it's because they are in there SO well. I've never not been able to get one out but I've had to work on a blue one for a good 5 minutes once. But it was really whipped on a few times and it was set super well.
He climbs almost all the climbs using only the small mastercams, but a lot of them. Doubles and offsets, he'll have like 18 cams on his belt and it occupies like NO room, they pack soooooo small on your belt. His doubles he keeps on a single biner through. Really really nice cams, I like em.

camhead · · Vandalia, Appalachia · Joined Jun 2006 · Points: 1,240
Medic741 wrote:Tricams.
Tricams aren't really feasible replacements for the tiny placements that 0 and 00 tcu's fit in. 1 or 2 ballnuts would be ideal, if anything.

As for the OP's question, I've never had an issue with the trigger such as you mention, and haven't heard from any friends about it, either. However, most of my experience with small gear in horizontals has been at the NRG, which has much smoother rock and more straightforward placements than the Gunks for that sort of gear. As someone upthread mentioned, I'd be much more concerned about the pebbles and irregularities in Gunks horizontals. An irregularity of just a mm or two would could make a tiny tcu essentially worthless.
Chris Wenker · · Santa Fe · Joined Dec 2007 · Points: 1,887

When mastercams first came out, and this horizontal topic was a hot issue, I had a similar experience with a blue MC. At least, I thought so at the time.
The blue MC, in a horizontal placement, looked like one of the uppermost lobes (can't recall if it was inner or outer) was retracting when I tugged on the cam. I immediately plugged a C3 for redundancy and climbed past.
Afterwards, I discovered that my blue MC was dirty, and the spring action wasn't clean and sharp. MC's in that size seem to have pretty tight machining tolerances, and the slightest grime slows down the action (at least on mine). After cleaning, and now with regular maintenance, I haven't seen any similar issues, although there's not a lot of horizontals where I hang.

William Sonoma · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2012 · Points: 3,550

My partners and I have placed both the exact cams in question at the Gunks in the abundance of horizontals that exist there and have never had an issue. Of course, with any pro it depends on how you place it (how deep in, how retracted the lobes, etc), the rock quality, etc, etc, etc (as has been stated). Youre concern is totally valid and I appreciate/respect that you've inquired about others experiences. placing super thin pro always makes me more focused for sure. Have fun and go place them and see for yourself!

doublediamond100 · · Thousand Oaks, CA · Joined Apr 2011 · Points: 0

Thanks everyone who's answered so far. I've played around with them a little and haven't been able to get them to come out, but I feel like there's no substitute for people's experience with them on actual routes. The fact that gunks cracks are so pebbly is exactly why I'm worried about it. There's so little margin of error with small cams already, potentially reducing the cams expansion range by 25% seems like a bad idea. Unfortunately it looks like x4s and fixe aliens are also potentially having issues right now and totem basics are unavailable, so it's hard to weigh the potential pros and cons for the small cams available at the moment. Moving up through the grades, however, I've definitely been in a few situations where I wish I had them.

Larry S · · Easton, PA · Joined May 2010 · Points: 872

The good news on the mastercams is there are lots of people using them without reporting the issue, i'm an outlier in that I saw it happen and it spooked me and i complain about it. Tons of people are using them without and reports flashing up about them pulling out. It's easy to avoid the condition and to test for it on your placements in horizontals, just pull it down and see how tight the trigger wires on the top get. The more cammed you get the lobes and the deeper the placement, the less likely it is to happen. Also, C3's are an option you don't explicitly consider, but there are lots of opinions on those too. Or go back a few cam generations and consider some TCU's. They're solid and you can probably find some used ones relatively cheap. Metolious cleans and re-slings them for $3 + shipping.

gtluke · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2012 · Points: 1

I just had an "experience" this weekend at the gunks. An orange mastercam on Lisa. It was in a vertical crack that wasn't crazy deep. I stuck it in, and it was right in the meat of the engagement range. I put my alpine draw on it and gave it a tug and it popped right the F out. WTF. I put it back in and tried again. Exactly the same result, pulled right out with like no force. Put it BACK in and looked carefully and the bottom of the trigger barrel was exactly touching the corner of the rock as I bent it towards me to tug on it. It would grab the rock, retract the lobes and pull right out. That corner was exactly in the right spot to do this, and the crack was slightly flared and not super deep. I pulled the cam out, stuck in a purple C4 and yanked the hell out of it and it was fine in there. So strange, so un-nerving. Though, had I fallen on it I would have pulled down instead of over, and it would have held.
I specifically love the mastercams for shallow placements. They are a bit shorter from the front edge of the cam to the edge where it hits the rock. They will fit in little pockets where my C4's won't, and they don't seem to walk nearly as much. A little freaked out from that though.

Gunkiemike · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 3,492
camhead wrote: Tricams aren't really feasible replacements for the tiny placements that 0 and 00 tcu's fit in. 1 or 2 ballnuts would be ideal, if anything.
#3 and 4 Ballnuts are closer to 00 and 0 Metolius. But who racks those?
Luc-514 · · Montreal, QC · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 12,506

I don't think I ever placed my #0 and #00 TCUs in the Gunks, I was probably not climbing hard enough routes...

gtluke · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2012 · Points: 1

My climbing partner (gunks) ONLY racks mastercams. He's got a rack and a half of standard and half of the offsets.
That's it, only thing he carries. Every once in a while I"ll make him carry one of my larger cams if I read it in the beta. But man, how liberating it must be to have 1/3rd of the weight of most climbers. he keeps them all on I think 8 caribiners too. the double and the offset all on one biner.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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