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ice help

Original Post
pooler · · Albany, NY · Joined Sep 2009 · Points: 20

Ok MP I just started ice climbing in the middle of this winter and have gone out a handful of times. My question is this. Is there any way to anticipate how the ice will be? In the few times I have been out I have had very different experiences regarding the quality of the ice. For instance I went to a frozen waterfall right around freezing and the ice was perfect. Another weekend I went to climb ice made by dripping on cliffs and it was about the same temp as before but the ice was very brittle. Does how the ice forms impact the quality? How important is the temperature? Can anybody help a poor ice climbing noob out. Any input would be appreciated.
Pooler

Scott McMahon · · Boulder, CO · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 1,425

Dude if you can figure this out you'll be a millionaire. Ice can vary quite a bit from 6am to 12. Best you can hope for is to keep an eye on precipitation, night and daytime temps and local reports like on MP. You want sunny / warmish days and cold night. Melt freeze, but not too much to melt away. How much snow did it get? Is it insulated by a foot of snow that makes it dinner plate?

Thing like that all come into play, but it's a crap shoot as ice can change by the minute at times. Especially early season you might just be taking your tools "for a walk".

AThomas · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2011 · Points: 25
pooler · · Albany, NY · Joined Sep 2009 · Points: 20

I most certainly have taken my tools for a few "walks"

Thanks for the input

Jeff Johnston · · Bozeman, MT · Joined Sep 2010 · Points: 110

Unfortunately ice changes so much from day to day and even from morning to afternoon.

My suggestion is to keep your crampon front points and tools as sharp as possible and keep a small file in your pack for when you hit rock.
Sharp tools will preform best is all ice conditions.

for mixed/dry climbing I don't worry about how sharp things are...

KathyS · · Poughkeepsie, NY · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 125

A few things to note:

1. Ice forms relatively slowly, so the temperature over the last 24-48 hours or so matters. If it was wicked cold (low teens and below) the previous night/day(s), you'll probably have hard, brittle ice, even if it warms up some during the day. It might get better as the day goes on. Unless you have...

2. ...Sunshine directly on the ice, which can soften things up quickly. To the point of delamination if it's really warm.

3. Periods of extended below freezing temps can lead to dried out, brittle "ice bones". Unless you get occasional light rain, fresh snow, abundant sunshine on snow, or periods of above freezing temperatures, you don't get any water to refresh and grow the ice surface. I've seen this happen in the Adironacks a fair amount. Think about those old ice cubes in your freezer...

4. The fattest ice forms when you have good snow cover, warm days (30's-low 40's) and below freezing nights. Then you get hero ice conditions.

5. A lot of warm (40's-50's) rain early in the season can wash everything down. Rain into deep snow on cold ground does a lot less damage because the water is cooled before it runs over the ice.

Hope this helps.

Tim Stich · · Colorado Springs, Colorado · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 1,520

Damn, Kathy, that's a good primer on ice conditions.

KathyS · · Poughkeepsie, NY · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 125

Thanks, Stich. I give credit to my ice mentor, Gunkiemike. He taught me most of this.

cjdrover · · Watertown, MA · Joined Feb 2009 · Points: 355
pooler wrote:Ok MP I just started ice climbing in the middle of this winter and have gone out a handful of times. My question is this. Is there any way to anticipate how the ice will be? In the few times I have been out I have had very different experiences regarding the quality of the ice. For instance I went to a frozen waterfall right around freezing and the ice was perfect. Another weekend I went to climb ice made by dripping on cliffs and it was about the same temp as before but the ice was very brittle. Does how the ice forms impact the quality? How important is the temperature? Can anybody help a poor ice climbing noob out. Any input would be appreciated. Pooler
Will Gadd's book has an excellent description of the life cycle of an ice climb with great photos.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Ice Climbing
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