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Personal Trainer sues NYC Parks after fall from rock sculpture

doug rouse · · Denver, CO. · Joined Apr 2008 · Points: 660

I'd like to buy him a coffee from McDonalds

David T.S. · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2014 · Points: 5

As a lawyer and a climber, the public perception that personal injury lawsuits are out of control is a false one created by sensationalistic and incomplete media coverage and one of the most effective misinformation campaigns ever perpetrated on this country by business groups posing as citizen groups in the '90s. This public misconception has led to terrible "tort reform" laws that protect big business and doctors from their own negligence and willful misconduct. Get the background here: hotcoffeethemovie.com/Defau…

That is why lawsuits like this really piss me off. They reinforce the (mostly) false narrative about the prevalence of frivolous lawsuits. Worse still, they cause landowners and governments to become overly cautious and deny access to climbers, which is an unreasonable response because I am not aware of any landowner actually successfully being sued for allowing climbers to climb. In any event, our system works well enough and he will lose because of his assumption of risk combined with lack of any negligence on the part of the city. No "No climbing" sign? Gimme a break.

FrankPS · · Atascadero, CA · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 276
David T.S. wrote:As a lawyer and a climber, the public perception that personal injury lawsuits are out of control is a false one created by sensationalistic and incomplete media coverage and one of the most effective misinformation campaigns ever perpetrated on this country by business groups posing as citizen groups in the '90s. This public misconception has led to terrible "tort reform" laws that protect big business and doctors from their own negligence and willful misconduct. Get the background here: hotcoffeethemovie.com/Defau… That is why lawsuits like this really piss me off. They reinforce the (mostly) false narrative about the prevalence of frivolous lawsuits. Worse still, they cause landowners and governments to become overly cautious and deny access to climbers, which is an unreasonable response because I am not aware of any landowner actually successfully being sued for allowing climbers to climb. In any event, our system works well enough and he will lose because of his assumption of risk combined with lack of any negligence on the part of the city. No "No climbing" sign? Gimme a break.
I don't doubt that most lawsuits are legitimate to some degree (a very subjective determination). But we need a system that can quickly dismiss lawsuits like these, or even punish/fine the lawyers that bring these. How do we get common sense and personal responsibility back?

How about the burglar that fell through the skylight and sued?

Or the woman that was texting at the shopping mall and fell into the fountain, and sued?

There are numerous examples that show something must change in our system.
Paul Wilhelmsen · · sandy, ut · Joined Aug 2012 · Points: 231

David T.S. I am most definitely not a lawyer but I disagree about how common frivolous law suits there are.

The restaurant I work in has literally been sued a dozen times since I have worked there (about 15 years, I started as a bus boy at the age of 13). We have been sued many many times for people slipping in the parking lot, that we don't own by the way. We have been sued by an old guy who tripped over a curb, claimed it was a dangerous "stumbling block" (I kid you not those were his exact words) despite the fact its painted yellow. We have been sued for serving the wrong kind of syrup to a person. I'm not making this up he asked for sugar free and got regular and sued us. FYI sugar free syrup is still PACKED with sugar it just doesn't have even more added after the fact.

The amount of ridiculous law suits out there is staggering. I don't understand how you could possibly say that the occurrence of frivolous law suits is exaggerated.

Oh and incidentally the majority of those people DID make money cause its always cheaper to settle out of court then to fight and win.

Buff Johnson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2005 · Points: 1,145

The judge should just tell him that since he wasn't really successful at climbing it, he has no basis to claim anything.

Ryan Watts · · Bishop, CA · Joined Apr 2013 · Points: 25
FrankPS wrote: I don't doubt that most lawsuits are legitimate to some degree (a very subjective determination). But we need a system that can quickly dismiss lawsuits like these, or even punish/fine the lawyers that bring these. How do we get common sense and personal responsibility back? How about the burglar that fell through the skylight and sued? Or the woman that was texting at the shopping mall and fell into the fountain, and sued? There are numerous examples that show something must change in our system.
We already have that system. This case will likely never go to trial.

There are outliers of course, but what you don't hear about are the "outliers" on the other side where someone has a totally legitimate claim and gets totally screwed out of a reasonable outcome.

The deck is stacked in favor of business / insurance companies. If anything, stories like this just further stack the deck in their favor since they are so obviously ridiculous.
Greg D · · Here · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 883

Tort reform:

The loser pays the attorney fees for both parties.

Brian C. · · Longmont, CO · Joined Feb 2010 · Points: 1,100

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Avalon'cha · · your girlfriend's bedroom · Joined Aug 2013 · Points: 35
Greg D wrote:Tort reform: The loser pays the attorney fees for both parties.
No need for attorny fee reimbursement, just arrest the little shit for vandalism. He said "i ran and jumped on it", an obvious attempt at knocking it over.
Jason Todd · · Cody, WY · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 1,114

Why do attorneys wear neck ties?

Keeps their foreskin from popping out of their shirts.

rgold · · Poughkeepsie, NY · Joined Feb 2008 · Points: 526

According to the Post, lawyer in the case is Andrew Spinnell. andrewjspinnell.com/ He's primarily a divorce lawyer, but with a sub-specialty in school-related personal injury cases. You can just imagine what kinds of things he handles there given that he's taken this preposterous claim. My guess is he specializes in milking the system for money by getting settlements that avoid the expense of a trial.

As for Jonathan Stock, he no longer appears as a trainer or anything else at Soho Strength Lab sohostrengthlab.com/. He is still listed as a "certified member" of Functional Movement Systems functionalmovement.com/expe…

I think it is true that absurdly frivolous suits like this could have a very negative effect on NYC bouldering. It costs the city money no matter what.

Lizzy Scully · · Mancos, CO · Joined Jul 2007 · Points: 25

OMG this is the kind of person who ruins it for the rest of climbers! Are you kidding me? He actually said this, and now he's suing??? I hope people give him so much s**t that he changes his tune. How irresponsible.

“Just because I’m an adult doesn’t mean I don’t get to explore the world, too,” said Jonathan Stock, 32, who ruptured his Achilles tendon in the fall."

Matt Roberts · · Columbus, OH · Joined Mar 2010 · Points: 85
David T.S. wrote: Worse still, they cause landowners and governments to become overly cautious and deny access to climbers, which is an unreasonable response because I am not aware of any landowner actually successfully being sued for allowing climbers to climb.
Lawsuit success is not a meaningful statistic. I know precisely one landowner that opens his land to climbing. He has been sued a half dozen times for climbing-related injuries, and though he's won every suit, he has also spent 4-5 figures defending each suit as well. I'm glad its him and not me. I'd have closed the land long ago.
20 kN · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2009 · Points: 1,346
Greg D wrote:Tort reform: The loser pays the attorney fees for both parties.
That's already law in many states.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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