Delaware Gap Great Arch

All solid info and advise. Thank you to all who take the time to respond. Crude or rude, or whatever others might be offended, all criticism is constructive as long as you view it as such.

I will sign off with saying I thought posting on a online forum would be a little different then it has turned out to be. Although everyone here has taken care to provide sound advise, it is astonishing the " assumptions" that people come to in relation to the abilities or skill level of others who have asked for a better guide book to unfamiliar place.

An individual who solo's a place like the DWG on 5.8 onsight or any route, is rather completely stupid, or has some skill and experience. If i where viewing this forum from the outside, I would presume the latter but still offer that word of caution as you all have done. thank you. It seems everyone here leans toward the stupid. It is astonishing to me.

I may not be 20 years seasoned but I do have many seasons. In addition I have taken part in classes and studied short stints under better climbers when i was in one place for long enough. I agree I have had no "mentor" My time in the Marine corps put me in some places climbing in the deserts and arctic in far away places with 50 pound packs and a weapon, so although I may not be a big wall veteran, and I am new to the Delaware Water Gap...well doesn't matter.

I Thank you all for your very sound input and advise. I am always looking to climb with great people and will continue to look for that "mentor" and learn as much as I can. I am no fool and invite anyone who may meet with me to feel free to throw praise or criticism my way, as I would do to others as that is the way of shared Knowledge whether it be crude or not. Signing off........

Meg Ryan wrote:Question for all you east coasters, from an ignorant CA dude: are these death routes at DWG as sandbagged as that place called the gunks?

I wouldn't say they're Death Routes as much as they're seldom climbed, dirty, vegetated, occasionally loose/chossy, beta is limited at best, and there are no chalk marks to follow.

The Gap is the Gunks before the carriage road and stairmaster. It's not quite Cannon Cliff, where every week something breaks off, but it's nowhere near as polished, traveled, and documented as The Gunks.

I've had some scary days there. I've grabbed holds and seen refridgerator sections of rock wobble, come home covered in poison ivy rashes, screamed at the top of my lungs over traffic to communicte with partners to no avail, dogged falling rocks, carried gardening tools on lead, been caught in lightening storms, once a hail storm with golf ball sized stones, encountered rattle snakes, porcupines, and once I was up on a ledge with a copperhead above me and a black bear below me...neither was going anywhere.

I'm glad most people don't like the Gap. I love that it's wild up there. I love the seclusion and adventure.

It's pretty sad, actually, that folks can't ask a question or post an impressive pic without the jerks coming out of their cracks.

I solo up to 5.10 at my favorite place, and will skip bolts on long 5.8 slabs. Yet here on MP, there is always someone saying how stupid I am or how the belayer must feel...yet not knowing a thing about me OR my belayer.

These comments typically come from the same person who will pull into the left lane, not to pass, but just to prevent ME from passing, even though you are going 30 in a 55 zone, and I'm trying to pass in a legal passing lane.

F* all of you who think you are justified for spewing what's all about YOU! You think it's wrong so you blast away at anyone...even though they are sincere and just asking for input. Sad, sad, sad.

I just hope that, one day, "someone" makes you wear a helmet, use 2 ropes, 50 crash pads, show proof of insurance, paid $25k for proper training (receipts are mandatory), log your EXACT route with the feds, pre-pay for an "on-call" helicopter pilot, all to WALK to your car before you even embark on the 5.3 route that you have done a million times. Please post your pics and proud accomplishments, so I can blast you for not wearing a condom ("protection" for you idiots that don't get the sarcasm) while on the approach to that 10 foot climb..BECAUSE YOU ARE GOING TO DIE!!!

Yes it was a very poor attempt at writing a humorous story and asking for a different guide book and it completely bit me in the ass. My title was probably worst choice of all. I see that very clearly now. I think Doug took more offense than i did however.

Jonah Klein wrote:Yes it was a very poor attempt at writing a humorous story and asking for a different guide book and it completely bit me in the ass. My title was probably worst choice of all. I see that very clearly now. I think Doug took more offense than i did however.

Jonah.... I liked your story, I have found that even if you think your writting has whit and humor, the level of reading comprehension in your average person is pretty low. I have found it best to use a few LOL and :>) faces when trying to be funney.

Please don't die and if you can post up some pics, I would like to see what a overgrown, over the road, east coast choss fest looks like.... cause I just love to frequent those sorts of climbing places. LOL ;>)

Thanks. My wife said the same thing. She liked the story but said i need more pics. I'll make a point to take more pics. I can already see the comments on how i would be regarded as a pour tourist climber for just hitting a route to get pictures to post for a ego boost or something along those lines. Should be interesting.

Jeffrey Dunn wrote:indicate to me that you are having an abnormal progression into the sport.

LMFAO

Doug Meneke wrote:It's pretty sad, actually, that folks can't ask a question or post an impressive pic without the jerks coming out of their cracks. I solo up to 5.10 at my favorite place, and will skip bolts on long 5.8 slabs. {...snip...} F* all of you who think you are justified for spewing what's all about YOU! You think it's wrong so you blast away at anyone...even though they are sincere and just asking for input. Sad, sad, sad.

FWIW Doug, I can't disagree with your rant more. What you climb at your favorite crag is of no relevance whatsoever, as you're not the guy asking about DWG and you're well familiar with your crag, which the OP is not with DWG.

What we actually have here is not jerks on MP holding someone back, but rather locals who are very familiar with DWG giving very sound advise about climbing there.

Case in point: Routefinding on Osprey (one of the best climbs at DWG) on the PA side can be troublesome coming off the P1 belay. Iirc guidebook says exit up and left, which means pull over the roof above you. Thing is, there's also an easy looking traverse left to a nice looking vertical crack system that looks much easier and fitting for a 5.6. Unfortunately that traverse puts you on Pain Builds Character, which is 5.10a and something an aspiring 5.6 trad leader has no business being on.

Another example is that bolted climb a bit before High Wall area on the PA side. I was standing on a car-sized block above the second bolt and while reaching up to sling a horn the block decided to no longer be part of the cliff. Fortunately my belayer was well off to the side, as it took out a couple large trees on its way to the talus field.

So yeah, DWG can be every bit as dangerous as it's made out to be, and the OP would be wise to get a lot more familiar with the place before pushing things or soloing there.

not for nothing...

the title of this thread is "DELAWARE GAP IS GOING TO KILL ME".

I mean, I didn't say anything...but...just saying, you know?

Huh. Didn't know you can change thread titles. I liked the original one better.

Aric Datesman wrote:Huh. Didn't know you can change thread titles. I liked the original one better.

I liked original better as well...So did my Wife, however, it was made very clear to me that my choice in words and lack of emphases on forum humor and ignorance toward proper educate of how i state my status and stature of climbing knowledge makes me out to be a complete idiot. to my own fault of ignorance and given the fact that it seems to be more like politics these days that face value of what one heard or read or interpreted on a forum equals most individuals evaluation of ones climbing ability, I chose to try to save some face before I was cast out as a complete Leopard. My most optimistic outlook is I will better my Solo skill's as no one will climb with me and I look forward to accelerating that particular skill.

I do have to say funny thing is I met some very fine climbing individuals who extended a warm inviting welcome and will be climbing with some experienced mentors very shortly. So i guess it worked both ways mostly in my favor as i learned a great deal from this experience.

Not to sound harsh, but if a bunch of locals chiming in that they don't want to be the one to find your bloody carcass is enough to make you change the title of a thread on MP, perhaps they're right that DWG is not for you. Don't forget, Hell and High Water is a 5.5X, as evidenced by the cairn at the bottom. And did I mention the Park Rangers having no idea where the climbing is? Even if you tell them it's up the talus slope from Cold Air Cave, which the tour bus stops at?

Good luck to you, and FIY High Wall on Minsi to Cold Air Cave is usually ~30 minutes. Hiking out with a shattered ankle it's more like 3 or 4 hours, and I'm speaking from experience. I expect the NJ side to be equally bad, if not worse due to being steeper and increased traffic noise.

BTW, changing the thread title is hardly "signing off". Frankly, do us all a favor and make the drive to the Gunks. You'll be both safer and happier, and we won't lose access.

This guy is like the "Borat" of MP. If English is the second language, then great apologize me. Very nice! First accent climbing route...yes?

"...Leopards are known for their ability in climbing..." wikipedia

...the more you know

I agree with Aric and Michael 100%

Yes, route finding is real at the gap, and you're not going to follow chalk. Below I've listed The best guidebook for the DWG IMHO, and essential for anyone climbing in the keystone state. 500 pages of Pennsylvania rock to explore! (and that's just the tip of the iceberg as far as what PA has to offer). Michael Steele also put out a great little pocket guide, but I think it is out of print.

bluebiner.com/all-pa-guideb…