TRAD ETHICS
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I have a question regarding ethics of trad climbing, to all you trad gurus. Here is the problem: |
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I wouldn't call this a "trad" climb, but a gear climb personally. |
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I'd call it a pink-point on gear, since pre-placed gear changes the difficulty of a climb more than pre-clipped bolts, so it seems more worth making a distinction between the two on gear climbs. If he wants to call it a redpoint I'm not going to have a conniption about it though. |
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SirTobyThe3rd wrote: Would you consider it a red point or a pinkpoint?It's technically a pink point, no ifs & buts. But if you aren't getting sponsorship from it, it really comes down to how you feel. If it those pieces were purely convenience for lowering & doesn't meaningfully change the difficulty, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. If it did, then I'd be hesitant to tell people I red pointed it. |
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According to the internet, it's not an ethical climb unless you onsight solo it without knowing of the climb's existence before hand. But if you do that then you're a suicidal idiot who's too selfish to think about others. Which is kind of unethical. You can not win the internet. Call it whatever makes you happy. In the words of Tom Hanson via semi-rad "There's no cheating in climbing, just lying." |
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It's not a redpoint. |
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Hahahahahahaha! It's purple point. Definitely purple point! |
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Its a Bettypoint. |
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All this ethics talk gives me blue balls. |
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Wow. |
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John Wilder wrote:redpoint, so long as he lowered and pulled the rope every time. i guess if you wanted to do a perfect redpoint you'd aid the pitch to the anchor, lower and clean your gear, then fire. But not every climber has the time or the inclination to do this for every single climb they attempt- nor should they, imho. in the grand scheme of things, its just not that big of a deal. and while some may debate the definition of 'trad,' i'd say its generally accepted by most that if you're climbing on gear, its safe to call it 'trad'I'd generally agree with this. I belayed a friend while he worked on a mixed pitch. One gear placement on a relatively easy section of terrain. After a couple of attempts he stopped bothering to futz with the single piece of gear and just left it in, clipping it as he went up. That kind of pinkpoint is totally valid in my book. I would've fallen asleep if he back-cleaned every single piece and draw each time. |
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Respect the style of the FA'ist. Don't add bolts. Don't chip. I think as long as the style you climb it in doesn't affect those to come after you it doesn't matter. 2 cents |
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Redpoint, pinkpoint, bluepoint (oh, wait. Those are crabs) is all bullcrap. |
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Plaid point. |
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James Piotrowski wrote:All this ethics talk gives me blue balls.Yet you not only read it, you contribute to it? What do you do on weekends for fun, perv? |
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Style: how you choose to make an attempt/ascent of a given route. |
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If you are over 50 and have a Supertopo account: hell no pussy! grow a sac and pull your cammy cams before another go. |
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David Sahalie wrote:If you are over 50 and have a Supertopo account: hell no pussy! grow a sac and pull your cammy cams before another go.He did pull his rope after his high piece and went ground up every time. But after 3 attempts there were cams in 3 key places that he did not have to place (in key strenuous spots). So some say it is not even trad any more? It is interesting how many opinions there are on this silly question. How about when dudes BITD freed the route for the first time, before there were cams, and used a lot of fixed pitons on the pitch since placing the pins on lead would be nearly impossible. Were they pinkpointing than? PS: What the hell is YOYOd? Is that something between RP and a PP? |
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SirTobyThe3rd wrote: PS: What the hell is YOYOd? Is that something between RP and a PP?A "yoyo" ascent is if your buddy had NOT pulled his rope and stayed tied in while he rested. Then when he was rested he led the climb to the top clipping whatever was above his previous high point to the anchors. I don't think there is an actual term for what your buddy did. Sounds like he fought the good fight and then climbed to the top, which is cool because he got to get his left gear back and not post on MP asking for someone stronger to please give it back for a 6 pack, or whatever. Here's Ron Kauk on Magic Line. Yosemites hardest crack climb? If you look close there's wires and tiny cams sticking out all the way above him. No clue what term he called this ascent. Ron Kauk EDIT- when you say redpoint or pinkpoint, those are sport climbing terms/phrases. Trad climbing doesn't usually use those I don't think. |
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trad is rad |
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from what i understand, pink point is when you lead a route after the draws have already been hung (sport) or if gear has been placed (trad), although i haven't heard of many people preplacing trad gear. either way i would call it a pinkpoint and since pinkpoint-ing sport routes is the new norm, and like others have said, consider it a redpoint. don't forget the best color of them all, greenpoint. youtube.com/watch?v=-TeTejh…. |