Victory Whippers Are Not Good Practice

Guy Keesee wrote:D.Buffum... Thanks for the links, but not one is a completely failed anchor. Yes there are lots of bad bolts out there and the climber must be able to spot the clues. I have personally pulled one out by HAND while getting lowered and cleaning. That one was a 3/8 buttonhead with the telltale hammer marks all over the head cause the idiot who placed it drilled the hole to shallow and then kept trying to make it bottom out and stop the hanger from spinning. This practice bends the head making it weaker, like bending a paperclip intill it snaps. And I guess that bolts in wet marine cliffs just suck always. and csproul..... that YV deal was complete user error. But let us address the OP.... Victory Wippers as unethical. (joke of the day / troll of the day and I took the bait :>) But my take on not trusting bolts is this. If your that afraid maybe climbing is not the best HOBBIE for you. ;>) EDIT: John thanks for replacing bolts. But still waiting for anchor bolts that failed??????? Both of them...

You asked for anchor bolt failure. I gave you one. I didn't say it was relevant to anything.

For the record, I think the OP is either ridiculous or a troll. But they are talking about victory whippers which, depending on your definition, may or may not include the use of the anchor bolts. A common definition is just clipping the last bolt, not clipping the anchors and jumping off when you finish the route. No anchor bolts involved, so looking for anchor bolt failure would be irrelevant. I guess if your definition includes pulling up a bunch of slack and jumping after clipping the anchors, then carry on

Man.

I'm so confused, I can't relate to any of this. I'm too busy having sex with an attractive woman and climbing responsibly.

Carry on, though. To each his own?

csproul wrote: You asked for anchor bolt failure. I gave you one. I didn't say it was relevant to anything..... No anchor bolts I guess if your definition includes pulling up a bunch of slack and jumping after clipping the anchors, then carry on

Yes... you must clip the anchor, if not one didn't SEND.

And to reply to the OP about other concerns.... who sells used gear???

or to put it another way.... who buys used gear????

EDIT: USED CLIMBING GEAR

Adam Burch wrote:Man. I'm so confused, I can't relate to any of this. I'm too busy having sex with an attractive woman and climbing responsibly. Carry on, though. To each his own?

BURCHY.... the boys at the TACO would claim that you have never had sex with anybody except yourself....

TRUE?? FALSE??

Guy Keesee wrote: Yes... you must clip the anchor, if not one didn't SEND. And to reply to the OP about other concerns.... who sells used gear??? or to put it another way.... who buys used gear???? EDIT: USED CLIMBING GEAR

This has result in a game of semantics. You can get to a position where you have personally felt like you reached the top of the route. Since climbing is all for personal satisfaction, that is where ever you want. That is when you jump off and victory whip. Its usually at the stance everyone else uses to clip the anchors. That's the normal version a victory whip, not clipping in and jumping off.

Guy Keesee wrote: BURCHY.... the boys at the TACO would claim that you have never had sex with anybody except yourself.... TRUE?? FALSE??

Sadly, it's true.

You got me.

Thank goodness there are climbing forums to argue about whether someone is trolling or not, and then spew our "sage advice" about nothing even though the OP is nonsense, we still get to argue about our solution to it!

God Bless the U S and A!

Short Beta wrote:Victory whippers are.. ..which one can argue is an essential part of climbing..

How exactly? Do you understand what "essential" means? Also, if you have to argue your point is it really that well established?

Are trust falls still cool?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JF75M_KhHms

A couple of the best victory whips I've ever seen, youtu.be/Fco-hX0PW_c?t=4m46s

This post violated Rule #1. It has been removed by Mountain Project.

I am so confused.

Eliot Augusto wrote: But, just looking on MP at the route that is my goal this summer(which made me look all this up), here is a comment. "...Several hangers and one bolt broke with the first tug on the funkness. I left the lower bolts alone (except for one anchor) as they were pretty bomber 1/2" self-drives..." mountainproject.com/v/field… They were replaced +-10 years ago, and there are a ton of examples out there already. By the way, don't forget that it mentions an anchor. Look up the rest, you're a big boy.

Lots of victory whips being taken off the last pitch of routes at Big Rock Candy, I can see how this is becoming a real problem.

Adam Burch wrote: You preparing for the torso parade?

Going to Main St in a minute. Sounds like you never been to Lee Vining young man.

A friend of mine broke his ankle very badly on a huge "victory whipper." Changed his life forever.

I replaced a lot of bolts this summer. My eyes were really opened as to how easily they can be compromised, especially with how many people are out there installing cheap, short, carbon steel stud bolts. The life span on these things is so short it's amazing, even in arid places. I don't trust any of them as much as I used to.

With that being said, I wouldn't take it to an ethical level. Climbing allows people to escape from that stuff. Personal risk taking is what it's all about, and without that climbing wouldn't be so much fun. Stay in the gym if that's what you desire. Have fun and take your victory whip if you like. Just don't blame anyone but yourself when you end up in medical debt up to your eyeballs.

SirTobyThe3rd wrote: Going to Main St in a minute. Sounds like you never been to Lee Vining young man.

Put one in the chamber...

WARNING: REAL QUESTION BELOW:

Is it conceivable that putting unnecessary stress on bolts (victory whips) will eventually weaken them OR the rock they're placed in faster than if they were not subjected to unnecessary stress?

If the answer is "yes" or even "maybe", why is everyone calling the OP a moron? I would think "yes", but I've never placed a bolt so I have no idea.

I remember a bunch of bros jumping off the top of Scarface a few years ago and the general consensus from the 20 or so climbers on other routes was to tell them to stop. The argument was that given the delicate nature of sandstone, it just wasn't a good idea.

Soooo, back to my above question:
Does jumping off routes weaken bolts or the rock in any way?

Andy Novak wrote:WARNING: REAL QUESTION BELOW: Is it conceivable that putting unnecessary stress on bolts (victory whips) will eventually weaken them OR the rock they're placed in faster than if they were not subjected to unnecessary stress? If the answer is "yes" or even "maybe", why is everyone calling the OP a moron? I would think "yes", but I've never placed a bolt so I have no idea. I remember a bunch of bros jumping off the top of Scarface a few years ago and the general consensus from the 20 or so climbers on other routes was to tell them to stop. The argument was that given the delicate nature of sandstone, it just wasn't a good idea. Soooo, back to my above question: Does jumping off routes weaken bolts or the rock in any way?

So, they were victory whipping onto their cams? Or pulling out slack then jumping with the rope clipped to the anchor?

The former bothers me more that the latter. A blown out cam can significantly lower the difficulty of a route in the creek

Mark E Dixon wrote: Lots of victory whips being taken off the last pitch of routes at Big Rock Candy, I can see how this is becoming a real problem.

You know it. Or maybe it was the question of 1 example of a bolt coming out.

If you dont trust a bolt to hold a victory whipper, why would you trust it to hold an unintentional whipper? It's all or nothing. Either the bolts are safe to whip on or they are not, and if you are on the route you probably trust the bolts are going to keep you safe, so that decision has already been made.

T0 - horrible troll.

The Blueprint Part Dank wrote: So, they were victory whipping onto their cams? Or pulling out slack then jumping with the rope clipped to the anchor? The former bothers me more that the latter. A blown out cam can significantly lower the difficulty of a route in the creek

They clipped the anchor, belayer paid out slack, and they jumped. Those bolts are glue-ins (I think, someone correct me if I'm wrong). Imagine if every person that climbs that route jumps like this..

It just seems misguided to me that the OP DOES have a shred of truth to it, and yet people here are throwing him to the fire. I think its good info for new climbers to know that bolts can and do fail, and putting unnecessary stress on them, particularly in soft rock like sandstone, is simply not a good idea.

Of course, these are some of the same people telling us anchor bolts never fail, victory whipping is essential, and (my favorite) instructing the OP to kill himself. Suddenly Smellenor's trolling doesn't seem so bad..