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CWI certification makes someone a Rock Climbing Guide?

Original Post
SavvageA · · North Pole, AK · Joined Jan 2012 · Points: 20

Question: Does a CWI cert make someone a Rock Climbing Guide?

What actually defines a guide: is it the employment situation, the certification type/level, or somewhere in between? Combination of both?

The reason I am asking is this:

I recently was approached by someone in the local gym who introduced them self as a Rock Climbing Guide. Through more conversation, they revealed that they teach a PE elective in climbing at a university, They have a CWI, some experience outside of a gym, and their children used to competitively climb with a local team (which is how they got into the sport). But they also said my harness and my pants (petzl luna and blue jeans) made me look like a "gumby", which ultimately made me think that this person had no clue what they were saying. Don't hate on jeans. With all this in mind...I was a little shocked that they would claim the title "Rock Climbing Guide".

All the guides I know are absolute bad asses, and spent a lot of time and money to be where they are. And usually they don't parade the fact that they are a guide (unless they are seeking employment). More than a few times, I've seen the guy/gal I was talking local routes with at the bar last night is out with clients the next day... and never mentioned that he/she was a guide during conversation.

Where is the line drawn for Rock Climbing Guides? What if a new climber were to employ a "guide" with the CWI, but this person had absolute minimum requirements for the course? Isn't this a problem?

michaeltarne · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2011 · Points: 120

What Matt said. I'd add though that the guide I took my SPI course through did consider Rock/Alpine Guides full guides and that you don't need IFMGA to call yourself a "guide." Just go by the end of the certification you have, whether it's Instructor or Guide.

Woodchuck ATC · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 3,280

Bet Fritz Weissner didn't need no frickin' AMGA to be considered a climbing or mountain guide. Same for any lifetime experienced climber that these days would be in their late 50's or even over 60. They are 'grandfathered' in as a safe instructor in my book, without taking some new 90s and later era 'certification' dreamed up now days. Respect those with much varied experience; they learned the hard way before quick easy gear came around.

TKHouse · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 30
Woodchuck ATC wrote:Respect those with much varied experience; they learned the hard way before quick easy gear came around.
+1, Experience is always the most important factor to me, whether looking at a guide, or simply a climbing partner. Interestingly, if you look at AMGA's requirements for guides / instructor certs, they require using skills you learn in the courses (ie, instructing in a multi-pitch environment) before being certified at those levels! Always thought that was interesting.

I took an SPI course when I worked for a college outdoors program for a while. The technical skills we went through weren't anything startling to anyone who's climbed even just a few years. The education techniques, group management, etc was extremely valuable, though. It really wasn't very much about leading safely or being a strong climber (although obviously that's a minimum requirement)... it's more things like "How do I manage transitions and belays of a group of 12 people who want to rappel, some left handed and some right handed?" or "how do I occupy the attention of eight kids at one time even though only two are climbing at any given point?" Even people who have climbed for many years may have not encountered situations similar to these, but they could be very important toward maintaining the safety and positive experience of clients.

One interesting thing our instructor pointed out was that, in America, we have this impression as a "guide" being some level above "instructors". He mentioned that in some other nations, "guides" were seen as people who can simply drag somebody up a mountain, albeit safely. Instructors, conversely, were seen as individuals who have the knowledge and skills to teach climbing and safely and effectively impart climbing skills on others. I thought it was an interesting distinction.
SavvageA · · North Pole, AK · Joined Jan 2012 · Points: 20
Ben Beckerich wrote:In Oregon, for instance, you can get a guiding license from the Oregon State Marine Board (regulates ALL guiding licenses - climbing, hunting, fishing, etc) if you are BFA/CPR certified and can get liability insurance..
I'm not sure if this is awesome, or totally sketch.

Woodchuck- I completely agree with you there.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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